The Classic Machinery Network

Digging out an old one here... perhaps someone can help me. I have the same engine in my 3cx and whilst it runs fine, it cranks for quite a while before it starts. This is only from a cold start. It starts easier when warm. I have gone through the fuel system, added an inline filter outside the tank after completely cleaning the tank. Sediment bowl is clear and a new filter fitted along with a new lift pump. None of this has made any difference. The only thing I haven't checked is ' the last chance filter' on the injector pump that I am reading about just tonight on this forum. Is this likely to be whats causing the hard start? Battery and alternator have been ruled out. Many thanks in advance.

I would guess, if it starts and runs well when warm, then the problem is not fuel supply. It could be any number of things, including compression slightly down, injector pump needing an overhaul/recalibration and possibly cranking speed.
I had a leak on an injector pump on an FPT engine that required removal and sorting by a fuel pump specialist. The transformation on cold start was enormous. The other thing, although the starter may seem OK, these machines take a fair bit of turning over with the hydraulic pump and the torque convertor. I have Mahle (Iskra) starters on all my old machines. The gear reduction starter is quite expensive but absolutely transforms cranking speed and speed of starting. I would not bother fitting anything else now.

essexpete wrote:I have Mahle (Iskra) starters on all my old machines. The gear reduction starter is quite expensive but absolutely transforms cranking speed and speed of starting. I would not bother fitting anything else now.

Amen to that.
Once you've used a reduction-drive starter, you can't go back.

essexpete wrote:I would guess, if it starts and runs well when warm, then the problem is not fuel supply. It could be any number of things, including compression slightly down, injector pump needing an overhaul/recalibration and possibly cranking speed.
I had a leak on an injector pump on an FPT engine that required removal and sorting by a fuel pump specialist. The transformation on cold start was enormous. The other thing, although the starter may seem OK, these machines take a fair bit of turning over with the hydraulic pump and the torque convertor. I have Mahle (Iskra) starters on all my old machines. The gear reduction starter is quite expensive but absolutely transforms cranking speed and speed of starting. I would not bother fitting anything else now.

Thanks for that. Very insightful. Maybe I should try changing the starter. Would you have a link for the specific one I would require?

Can anyone tell me if this http://www.moteur-perkins.com/uploads/catalogue/lettre/notice/perkins-manual-al.pdf is the manual for the engine in my machine? A 1989 grey cab non turbo sitemaster.

Anton_Chigurh wrote:

essexpete wrote:I would guess, if it starts and runs well when warm, then the problem is not fuel supply. It could be any number of things, including compression slightly down, injector pump needing an overhaul/recalibration and possibly cranking speed.
I had a leak on an injector pump on an FPT engine that required removal and sorting by a fuel pump specialist. The transformation on cold start was enormous. The other thing, although the starter may seem OK, these machines take a fair bit of turning over with the hydraulic pump and the torque convertor. I have Mahle (Iskra) starters on all my old machines. The gear reduction starter is quite expensive but absolutely transforms cranking speed and speed of starting. I would not bother fitting anything else now.

Thanks for that. Very insightful. Maybe I should try changing the starter. Would you have a link for the specific one I would require?

I would not know the exact starter you need but Andrew Cross of A and R Handling would give you a price. As said they are not chap but Andrew is very helpful and usually quotes a fair price. TBH if the machine is only for occasional use you might not justify but with my old regularly used machines i have had so much less hassle. A 1995 Ford 6cyl tractor always a pig to start, even with 2 batteries, now starts on one slightly questionable battery. I actually then fitted the old starter to an older style Ford 4cyl engine in a Sanderson telehandler and it would not even turn the engine. That particular starter had also be overhauled a few years before by a very good guy.
https://aandrhandling.co.uk/
Speak to Andrew. I don't have any financial connection with Andrew BTW.

Thanks very much for that. Yes, Occasional use but I like to have it working when I want it if that makes sense. I have developed a fondness for the machine too. Its my first one. Super piece of kit but it seems that they get dogs abuse the world over. Worked until it breaks mentality rather than regular maintenance. My late uncle in the US had a grey cab for years that he meticulously maintained and it never let him down and remained in superb condition. His son in law now uses it occasionally.

Anton_Chigurh wrote:....3cx and whilst it runs fine, it cranks for quite a while before it starts. This is only from a cold start. It starts easier when warm. .

Have you checked the wiring to the pre-combustion heater on the top right hand side at the front of the engine?

My 1988 has that wire present and I've never had a reason to check anything on the circuit as my engine starts instantly, so unfortunately I can't offer much other advice (except to check the workshop manual which can be downloaded from this forum).

Anton_Chigurh wrote:Can anyone tell me if this http://www.moteur-perkins.com/uploads/catalogue/lettre/notice/perkins-manual-al.pdf is the manual for the engine in my machine? A 1989 grey cab non turbo sitemaster.

The 1004 in my '97 3CX does not look like the engine pictured in your manual.

First thing - does your engine number start with "AA"?

Sounds like you've covered the basics. Checking the valves might be the next best move to solve the white smoke and misfiring issue.