Ph 2 problem

[NorthernEngine]

Hi guys,
A little help if you can please.
I have a 1976 Benford forklift running a ph2 engine. It has always been a poor starter, requiring a liberal dose of easy start to get it going. It also refused point blank to ever start when warm.
Anyway, last week while I was using it to clear snow, it started running slow. The engine seemed to be producing full power, but it would barely crawl up the hill. I put this down to a tight diff or something like, as it was -5C.
So - I parked it up thinking everything might be ok when it warms up a bit. Now it wont start at all.
Plenty of compression etc, but just wont fire. Initially it caught on the easy start, but then woudnt run on the fuel. I bled the system, and there is certainly fuel right through. Now though, it wont even fire on the easy start.
Any ideas gents - theres more snow coming and I need it running pronto!
Thank you

[essexpete]

Are the injectors squeaking on turnover?

[NorthernEngine]

Not that Iv noticed, but then I probably wouldnt hear them over my cursing!
Just had another look at it and Im thinking rings are probably shot....
ho hum

[Julian]

and Im thinking rings are probably shot....
ho hum

Then you wouldn't have 'plenty of compression' as you allege!

To be honest there isn't really enough info to provide a diagnosis over then net - all that people can do is start suggesting things at random. However, if I was a gambling man, (which I'm not!) the fact that you can't get the thing to fire even on the ether would suggest that the engine is buggered (at least above the crankshaft!) The fact that it felt like it was developing full power but would hardly move could indicate a partial seizure maybe?

Julian.

[martyn williams]

Remove the exhaust manifold,check condition of the ports and pipe for gunging up with carbon..Sound like the engine may need a top end overhaul for a start. Are you using the excess fuel rack position for starting ? Can you hear a "creak " from the injectors when turning the engine over. Are you getting fuel to the injectors ? slacken off injector nuts and see if you get a spurt of fuel.
I would also drain fuel tank and refill with fresh diesel.You may have water in the fuel.
Martyn

[Julian]

Martyn & Pete, the point being missed here is that it won't fire at all now even with Easy Start. Even if the fuel system was totally dry of fuel the engine would fire or 'chuff' off the ether.

Creaking injectors is an irrelevance at this stage!

Julian.

[NorthernEngine]

Im in agreement with Julian.... its buggered!
Having had another look in daylight, the compression is not what it was, so looks like it is rings and I'll be stripping it down tomorrow.
Happy days

[Jeremy Rowland]

It may not be the rings knackered it could also be incorrectly seated valves or a burn't valve, if you are sure you have good compression then check the fuel and air intake systems before taking the thing to bits, even a dirty airfilter or collapsing inlet rubber hose could cause your woes.
Hope that helps.

Jeremy

[martyn williams]

Easystart is not very good for eny engine. Those petters are pretty robust, worked on lots,we had a fleet of 150 dumpers fitted with PH2 and Lister LR3's.
.My mate had exactly the same problem with his recently.He gave the heads a decoke and re ringed the engine.Works perfect now.The times I have been on a site and found diesel contaminated with water must have been dozens of times.On a Petter you should hear a creaking sound from the injectors when engine is turned,,that would tell you the injectors are fine.The trouble with easy start,engines become reliant on it and will cause ring damage .Another thing to try is squirt a drop of oil down the air intake that will bump up compression.
Good luck
Martyn

[FOWLER MAN]

Remove the exhaust manifold,check condition of the ports and pipe for gunging up with carbon..Sound like the engine may need a top end overhaul for a start. Are you using the excess fuel rack position for starting ? Can you hear a "creak " from the injectors when turning the engine over. Are you getting fuel to the injectors ? slacken off injector nuts and see if you get a spurt of fuel.
I would also drain fuel tank and refill with fresh diesel.You may have water in the fuel.
Martyn

Hi,
I have years of experience with these engines and Martyns suggestions are the way I'd go.
I have seen the exhausts on these carbonned up till there is only a tiny hole left for the engine to exhaust through.
This will have the effect of building up compression when running, making the engine work flat out till it finaly stalls.
This carbon could also be preventing the ex. valves seating, especialy if you have been using the decompressor to stop the engine.
Was the engine using much oil?? Was there excessive black smoke when it was tunning??
I would think that hearing the injectors creak is important whatever stage your at with your trouble shooting.
Finaly if the above suggestion is the case it points to the pumps not being properly set up, that could also have a bearing on your earlier starting problems. These engines are usualy pretty good starters.
I will post details of how to spill time and set up the pumps if you need that info., it's not difficult.
Good luck.
Fred