I think my 3CIII just died.......

[Drott TD6]

I have a 3CIII with the torque-converter + 4 speed transmission, I was moving some scrap when it lost drive (TC pressure guage still showing pressure) and wouldn't move in any gear. The engine note became erratic at the same time.
I tried to lift the loader but the engine immediately stalled. It won't start at all now, starter spins, there is clonking noise as if running on one cylinder and, worst of all, front end of engine (fan, hyd pump) doesn't turn with the starter.
My plan is to pull the starter off and see if ring gear turns without crank pulley spinning. If this is the case would it be likely that the end of the crank has parted company with the torque converter? I suppose it's an engine out job anyway.
Anyone heard of this happening before? thoughts on the causes and possible fixes?

Paul

[Green Dragon]

Sounds like crankshaft has broken or flex plate that mounts torque convertor has broken. Fingers crossed it's the latter. Good luck.

[Mark.Rive]

Oh dear, Keep us posted, lets hope its not the crankshaft though! Mark

[Drott TD6]

I'm hoping it's the flexplate (or whatever links torque converter to engine) that has failed.
Had a look in the manual, not that clear, and will investgate later in the week.
Whatever the outcome I'll try to post some pictures of the damage.

Paul

[Mark.Rive]

Good luck with it Paul Mark

[Julian]

Maybe the bolts holding the flex plate to TC have come out (assuming that's how it's fastened.

Julian.

[FOWLER MAN]

Maybe the bolts holding the flex plate to TC have come out (assuming that's how it's fastened.

Julian.

The Torque mounting plate is indeed fixed to the flywheel with 10mm. / 3/8 bolts, but I dont think that will be the problem.
The Torque converter is transmission side of the flywheel so if as Paul says the starter engaged the flywheel and turned it over without turning the pump and accessorys at the front of the engine the break must be in the crank shaft.
I've worked on plant repair and maintainence all my life, still am at 71 years of age and I've only ever seen two snapped cranks. One in a Ruston and the other in a Leyland (BMC).
I know it doesn't help you , but in the case of the Ruston which had large access plates on the sides of the crank case, I was able to drop the oil, "V"out and weld the crank which had broken through the rear web, and run it long enough to get it onto a lowloader and into the workshop.
Keep us posted.
Good luck.
Fred

[Drott TD6]

Oh dear, that's not good news......
The only ray of (false?) hope is that my machine is an earlier one where the torque converter housing seems to replace the flywheel/ringear and bolt directly to the crank with the ring gear attached to it so if the mounting bolts sheared or fell out it could just spin, I'm only going on the diagrams below:

tc old 1.JPG

tc old 2.JPG

The later 3CIIIs had a different arrangement with a flywheel and flexplate:

tc new.JPG

I'll probably have a go at it on Wednesday but that will be just getting the starter off and peering into the TC housing. it's not going to be a quick diagnosis as the engine will definitely need to come out to fix whatevers gone bang. Do you think that if I made room at the front of the chassis by taking the rad and hyd. pump off I could move the engine forward for access? That might be easier for me with my limited lifting gear (now the digger's bust).

I'll let you know the damage later on.

Paul

[Mark.Rive]

I'm afraid as Fred has pointed out, if the starter it turning the ring gear and the front pulley is not turning the crank is most likely sheared. You could whip the starter out to gain access to the flex plate. There will be a bolt holding the flex plate visible. Put a spanner on that and turn the flex plate while someone watches the front pulley for you. did that with my donor 3cIII as to confirm same problem. You cant move the engine unit
forward very far before you have to lift it, there is a cross member right in front of it I'm afraid. Keep us posted please. Cheers Mark

[FOWLER MAN]

Hi,
Just a couple more thoughts, You have the old Brockhouse torque converter which we also had in some road rollers. So there is, as you say, no flex coupling plate.

If I remember rightly, (it's a long time ago), it had large centre spiggot to locate it and was secured direct to the flywheel with about 10 No. 3/8 bolts.
The flywheel was a much narrower version of the one fitted to the manual machines, (not much more than a plate), the weight being in the torque housing itself.
The starter ring was attatched to it, not the torque housing.

Another thought. You would have had trans pressure as long as your engine was running because, if my memory serves me right, on that model, the trans. pump was tandem mounted with the power stearing pump and driven off the timing gears.

Final thought. The Leyland (BMC) engine with a sheared crank which I mentioned in the earlier post broke through the rearmost web. It ran on in that condition till it was stoped, though I,m told it did make a fair old rumble and klonking noise.
If I can be of help give a shout.
Fred