Trouble filling 3CII with hydraulic oil

[machine7]

Hi guys,
Firstly, thanks for creating such a great forum.
I recently bought an old tired JCB 3CII to do some work around my land. It's generally been great, but there have been a few issues. However, thanks to this site, when the fuel pump became sludged up solving the problem was a doddle. The recent issue with the engine starting, but not running had me stumped, as all the fuel components were clean. Chanced upon a topic that mentioned air locks in the tank, so whipped off the fuel filler cap, and away she went!
So i'm assuming I have a problem with the fuel breather pipe. Any ideas where this would be located?

This however isn't my biggest headache. As seems to be typical with these machines, the seal in the dipper ram is seeping oil. With a reconditioned ram being £250, I'm not sure it is economical to replace it instead of just topping up the oil. This is where my problem occurs. I know the hydralic oil tank is low, as I can't see anything in the sight pipe in the cab. I've put in about 10 litres, but it takes me about 10 minutes to add each litre. Is this normal? When I add the oil into the rubber filler pipe the oil rises to the top of the pipe and doesn't seem to filter into the tank. Any ideas why this is so? I'm not pumping it, rather just filling it via a watering can.

Second issue is how sturdy are the engines? I think it is the Leyland engine that is in mine, but couldn't be sure. What's the easiest way of finding out? The issue is that I've got a bit of mayo appearing in the dipstick and under the oil filler cap. Coming from cars, I'd guess that this is a head gasket issue? How easy are they to replace? I've re-built car heads, but this looks a lot heavier.

Also, (told you it was tired!) the front steering yoke seems to be loose. When I roll the front tyres with my foot, the yoke visibly rocks. Is this normal?

Thanks for any help you can give, and look forward to chuntering around in my JCB to years to come. (Going to have to be imaginative with the digging jobs, as the land is not that big!)

//Angus

[agrimax]

Hi Angus.It's been a while but from what I remember,on my MK2 or maybe 3,there was a bung near the hose you are filling(perhaps on the filter).I removed it and the spring and plunger,replaced the bung and filled easily with oil.The spring is quite strong and can take some force to refit after.The engine will be a Leyland.Keep an eye on the coolant level.Could be the head gasket but if the machine is not getting a lot of use or indeed up to operating temp,condensation will form on the dipstick and filler cap.Is the oil black?If the coolant is staying and the oil is black,I doubt you have a problem.If you have,head gaskets are fairly easy to replace although the head will be quite heavy.
The movement in the axle is probably normal for a machine this age and unless you are travelling on the road,I wouldn't worry.
Not sure if there is a breather pipe.Would have thought the cap should have a vent in it.
Why not fit new seals to the leaking ram and see what happens?A lot cheaper than a recon' ram and unless your cylinder or rod is scored,it could be a simple fix?

[jcb1968]

Hi,
does anybody know why my 3CII is leaking oil from below the steering wheel? how do I fix this?
I have the same problem as above -re filling up with hydraulic oil, very slow.
Also the hydraulic pump or something is making a screaming noise only when the levers are being pulled, is this normal?

[essexpete]

Hi Angus.It's been a while but from what I remember,on my MK2 or maybe 3,there was a bung near the hose you are filling(perhaps on the filter).I removed it and the spring and plunger,replaced the bung and filled easily with oil.The spring is quite strong and can take some force to refit after.The engine will be a Leyland.Keep an eye on the coolant level.Could be the head gasket but if the machine is not getting a lot of use or indeed up to operating temp,condensation will form on the dipstick and filler cap.Is the oil black?If the coolant is staying and the oil is black,I doubt you have a problem.If you have,head gaskets are fairly easy to replace although the head will be quite heavy.
The movement in the axle is probably normal for a machine this age and unless you are travelling on the road,I wouldn't worry.
Not sure if there is a breather pipe.Would have thought the cap should have a vent in it.
Why not fit new seals to the leaking ram and see what happens?A lot cheaper than a recon' ram and unless your cylinder or rod is scored,it could be a simple fix?

You could get a split gland seal at one time so that all you needed to do was to unscrew the cap and fit. The seal had a kind of zig zag joint. Saved pulling out the piston.

[si25]

Angus; the breathers are on the tank, they look like a small one inch diameter top hat and appear to serve no purpose. unscrew them and clean them out.
Re the oil filling, try what robin said.
And you'd be surprised at the price of seals, as robin says, the seal kit works out to be around thirty quid plus carriage, and even if the ram is scored will re seal it for light duty. they are not a hugely complicated or difficult job to do either.
the 4/98 leyland was not the finest to emerge from our factorys. you'll be able to identify it from the engine number which is stamped on the top face of the block. visible with the head on. (if i remember right, looking in from the right, at the front side of the block. you may find it gets worse, these engines were prone to liners "jumping" without going into too much detail they are not great. keep an eye on it. i'd run it hard for a good day or afternoon to see if any moisture/condensation goes away. maybe even drop the oil. then watch it over the following days/weeks as you use it.

John, sounds like you have a leaking orbital valve (steering) or possibly hose and, or fitting. pull of the steering column and try to locate the leak to an individual component. with the age of that equipment, you can expect seals and hoses to be perished and past their best.

[machine7]

Hi Angus.It's been a while but from what I remember,on my MK2 or maybe 3,there was a bung near the hose you are filling(perhaps on the filter).I removed it and the spring and plunger,replaced the bung and filled easily with oil.The spring is quite strong and can take some force to refit after.The engine will be a Leyland.Keep an eye on the coolant level.Could be the head gasket but if the machine is not getting a lot of use or indeed up to operating temp,condensation will form on the dipstick and filler cap.Is the oil black?If the coolant is staying and the oil is black,I doubt you have a problem.If you have,head gaskets are fairly easy to replace although the head will be quite heavy.
The movement in the axle is probably normal for a machine this age and unless you are travelling on the road,I wouldn't worry.
Not sure if there is a breather pipe.Would have thought the cap should have a vent in it.
Why not fit new seals to the leaking ram and see what happens?A lot cheaper than a recon' ram and unless your cylinder or rod is scored,it could be a simple fix?

Thanks Robin for your reply. I'll have a look for the bung this evening if it'll stop raining long enough.

The engine oil is black, however the coolant level does drop. I had to put in about 2 litres at the weekend, although I hadn't checked it for probably a month. I'm not sure that it is getting into the engine, as the water cap is pretty loose, and there is no pressure relief valve underneath it, so the there is a direct route from the radiator core to the vent pipe in the filler neck. Am I right in assuming that I should get a better filler cap?

Glad to hear that the movement in the axles isn't too concerning, especially as I'll not be taking it on the road. (Not registered, and not a single light works!). Looking at the size of the bolts I don't think my 3/8ths sockets would be up to the job!

I would like to consider replacing the ram seals as the rod looks to be in good condition, but from reading other posts it seems the end cap can be difficult to remove. I'm pretty sure mine hasn't been welded on as some seem to have been, so that's a good start. It also sounds like the job is best done with a special C-clamp to get a grip in the indents in the cap. Obviously I don't have one of these tools, so would a large stilson be a possible alternative? Or what is the best method?
Any suggestions for where a seal kit can be acquired from? Had a look on flea-bay, and the only listings they had were for the 3CX.

//Angus

[machine7]

Angus; the breathers are on the tank, they look like a small one inch diameter top hat and appear to serve no purpose. unscrew them and clean them out.
Re the oil filling, try what robin said.
And you'd be surprised at the price of seals, as robin says, the seal kit works out to be around thirty quid plus carriage, and even if the ram is scored will re seal it for light duty. they are not a hugely complicated or difficult job to do either.
the 4/98 leyland was not the finest to emerge from our factorys. you'll be able to identify it from the engine number which is stamped on the top face of the block. visible with the head on. (if i remember right, looking in from the right, at the front side of the block. you may find it gets worse, these engines were prone to liners "jumping" without going into too much detail they are not great. keep an eye on it. i'd run it hard for a good day or afternoon to see if any moisture/condensation goes away. maybe even drop the oil. then watch it over the following days/weeks as you use it.

Thanks Simon for you advice.
I'll have a look for the breathers to try and cure the airlocking. Worst case is I have to take the filler cap of occasionally, like to put diesel in it!
The PO told me that it had been standing for quite a while before he decided to sell it, so I hope you're right that it is just moisture/condensation. There certainly seems to be less of it now than when I bought it.

I guess to try replacing the seals it would be best to get the dipper arm laid flat (and pressure relieved), and see if the cap can be loosened before removing the ram from the machine in case the cap is stuck fast?

//Angus

[machine7]

Hi Robin,
Had a look in my hydralic filler area.
Is this the bung you were talking about?

IMAG0028.jpg

As you can see one of the pipes significantly obscures it. I didn't want to go to all the trouble of adjusting the pipe if it was to gain access to the wrong item.

Simon, I had a look for the top hat you were talking about, and I think I found where it should have been just in front of the windscreen, between the two hydralic breather ports. However, there wasn't a top hat, the hole was fitted with a bolt of a slightly smaller size, so the head blocked the hole, but not so tight that it wouldn't let air in. Think I might leave it as is, and just bear it in mind if it ever causes an airlock.

Thanks,
Angus

[agrimax]

Apologies if I'm wrong,Angus,but it's 15+ years since I've had a 3C but I do think that is the one.The pipe work didn't obstruct mine but perhaps something is a little out of place on yours?It would be worth bending the pipes a little for future access anyway and nothing is lost in removing the bung to see anyway,bearing in mind there will be considerable spring pressure on it,making refitting slightly harder.Perhaps someone else on here could enlighten us as to what the plunger/valve in there actually does?
www.diggerparts.net might be worth a call for seals.

[essexpete]

You can use a big stilson if you have one but it will chew the cap. You could make a c spanner. I also used an old G clamp with the swivel foot removed. Laid it over and screwed the end into the indent and pushed the back of the clamp against the cap.

With regard to filling it may help to reduce the tank level by lifting up the loader half way before removing the filler cap.