1983 3cx starter motor

[Munchkinman]

HI All,

Last Saturday machine was running all good. had to jump out and do a few things, went to start the old girl and nothing. not a thing.
Spent some time looking at cables and connections, pulled of the ignition switch to have a look and it feel to bits.
Put a new ignition switch in yesterday and still nothing not even a click for the starter motor.
Assumed the starter motor was on its way out. so tried the hammer trick and it started. moved the machine to where she lives and then tried to start again. Click click was all i was getting from the starter motor, then after a few more clicks she tried to start and now nothing. I am assuming the solenoid/starter motor has had its day. It looks like the original. i have attached photos.
Just asking does anyone know the model number or has anyone replaced with a new version??

Thanks

[gecko.cx]

A Japanese solenoid - that certainly isn't original!
The startermotor itself will be a Lucas M45, M50 or M127, but there are plenty of variations of solenoids to choose from.
The three numbers above also cover lots of variations with left/right mount and bolt pattern variants to complicate finding the correct part.

Before you start injecting cash, check the wiring carefully - particularly the heavy earth.

New Era is non-oem brand that has been around a long time so should exist on many cross-reference lists. It seems to match the Lucas 76557 and 76740 solenoids.

If it comes to the worst and the whole starter needs replacing, go the modern reduction drive style - they are smaller, lighter and higher torque.

[agrimax]

You could just try replacing the solenoid which is an SS707,but I'd recommend fitting a Mahle(used to be Iskra,then Letrika,now Mahle) reduction starter instead.
IS1023 for a 4.2KW starter or IS1201 for a 3.2 KW. The 3.2 may well be ample enough since you're in a warm part of the world! Just don't bother with an imitation Lucas starter from Oriental sources as they are just pure rubbish!!

[Munchkinman]

Thank you for your replies.
I went back and as gecko said look at conections again. The copper bolt on the solenoid was loose and striped. Bit of a bugger to get the nut off. Anyway managed to get it back on and tight just to see if it was that. Unfortunately still nothing. Not even a click. I spoke to my mechanics near where I work and they said about trying jump the starter with cable making sure out of gear. Again nothing not even a click so I'm assuming time for a new. I dont know Wether it's worth just replacing the solenoid or the whole starter. After going under flood water last year it might be worth replacing the whole thing.
Gecko do you know where to purchase in Aus?.
Thanks

[essexpete]

I would give another vote to the Mahle (formally Iskra) brand of reduction starters. They are quite a bit more expensive than the cheap crap but, in my experience with 4 fitted, starting is transformed. I also think the batteries last longer as well with an efficient starter.

[gecko.cx]

Hi @munchkinman, your local tractor parts place may be the easiest as the same engine was used in a lot of Massey tractors. A good autoelec who works on trucks / plant may have one in stock too.
For JCB parts, I use rousehilltractors.com.au (James is the parts guy).

When you used the jumper cable - did you just run it to main positive terminal?
- If you run the jumper to the "other" terminal, the starter should spin, but not engage - if it doesn't do anything, that leaves the motor or earth connection.
- second version (with or without the jumper) is to bypass the ignition switch (connect the big positive stud to the small spade terminal) (perhaps that is exactly what you did?).

To me, it sounds like it's the solenoid - maybe you are lucky!

[Munchkinman]

Hi Gecko, yes i did just try connecting to the main positive.
Ill have another look tomorrow just to make sure i was doing it right.
If it just turns out to be the solenoid can this be changed over without removing the Starter??
Yes i have used rouse hill tractors a couple of times.
Ill also google and see what i can find on the Mahle starters just in case.
Thanks for the info

[gecko.cx]

I replaced the starter on my 3cx not long ago (the old lucas was very sad inside).
I fitted a Mahle unit that RHT supplied.

The Mahle is about half the weight, 2/3 the size and starts the engine in under a second.

A clamp meter said the old starter was pulling 1400A which explained a lot of things!

Edit:
I put a pic in this thread showing the difference between the two.
Starter motor

[Munchkinman]

So i just tried bypassing the ignition switch with the jumper cables, only manged to get a couple of clicks and she did try to turn but very slow and sluggish and then again nothing.
I think its time to treat the old girl to a new starter seeing as i will be using her a fair bit the next few months.
Thanks for the info and pics gecko, looks like this is the way i will go. Do you have the part number for your model?? i guess i just have to send the info
to James at RHT and he can help, otherwise i can check out my local tractor mob.
Thanks

[gecko.cx]

The part number on the invoice is 714/40159, but check that is suitable as mine is a '97 P8