Perkins phaser 1004 in 3cx running bad

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Jeremy Rowland
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Re: Perkins phaser 1004 in 3cx running bad

Post #11 by Jeremy Rowland » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:25 am

Hi Dave, yes I did mean connect a pipe directly to the fuel injection pump and run it off a gravity feed let us know what happens. :thumbup:

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essexpete
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Re: Perkins phaser 1004 in 3cx running bad

Post #12 by essexpete » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:20 pm

I asked a question on another forum from a member who knows quite a lot about these engines. He asked what you re-built and have you checked the valve clearances ?


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Re: Perkins phaser 1004 in 3cx running bad

Post #13 by davewe11s » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:05 pm

So today... I disconnected each injector in turn (again) to see if I could hear a change, which I couldn't. I then went down the route of insufficient fuel and tried what Jeremy suggested supplying the injector pump directly this made no difference.

I then removed one of the injectors tested it on a injector pressure tester (from ebay, not the best! but confirmed it was still firing at the right pressure) and connected it to an output of the injection pump. My logic was that if the pump output was running at the correct pressure I should see atomised fuel. I didn't, I didn't see any fuel at all. Maybe my logic is not so good or something wrong?

I then googled the lucas CAV dpa injector pump because I remembered reading about a 'last chance filter', from this I removed and cleaned the filter in the intake of the fuel pump which was surprisingly clean for an old machine! However when I reconnected everything, bled and tried to start the machine, it really struggled to start.

I cant see that anything that I did would have had an effect but it has now gone from starting instantly to really struggling.

The background- turns out if you keep topping up with water thinking "I must put some antifreeze coolant in" and never doing it. The engine freezes. It cracked the block along the side and top surface. So I got a recon block that had been crack and pressure tested and Then rebuilt, replacing all gaskets, front and rear oil seals, linners, pistons, rings, all bearings, valves, valve guides.

Valve clearances were set on rebuild and I have checked them in the last few days.

My thoughts now are pointing to the injection pump??

Thanks again guys for your time.


Dave

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Jeremy Rowland
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Re: Perkins phaser 1004 in 3cx running bad

Post #14 by Jeremy Rowland » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:22 am

Dave the issue does look like it is the fuel injection pump you know that it is not the lift pump or the filters because you did as I recommended and tried it on a gravity feed so those two items are eliminated from the equation; the best man to ask about the fuel injection pump would be Fred Evans 'Fowlerman' he does still visit this site from time to time but you could always send him a pm he is very helpful and very knowledgeable. :thumbup:

Jeremy


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Re: Perkins phaser 1004 in 3cx running bad

Post #15 by Mrsmackpaul » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:40 am

With out sounding like a smart ass

White smoke means air is in the system on a diesel
Grey smoke means its burning oil
Black means is over loaded

So with this basic information we know the problem is air getting into the fuel system, but how ??

What generally happens when you get the symptoms you describe is you have a leak in the return tank side of the fuel system and as the fuel leaks back thru tne system over night it draws some air in

Im guessing the fuel tank is lower than the injector pump

If so the problem then lies in you cant see any leak most times as fuel line isnt pressurized when running and when its not it is under vacuum

So I would start by checking connections you have tampered with on the return
Iine

If still no luck get some old inner tube and some big flat washers and use them as clamp either side of the tube with a couple of air line fittings , attache tube and fittings to the fuel filler neck with a hose clamp and apply some air pressure till the tube starts to balloon a bit and then check for leaks

Anyway thats my take on what you described, good luck

And remember, white smoke means air in the fuel

Paul
Your better to die trying than live on your knees begging


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Re: Perkins phaser 1004 in 3cx running bad

Post #16 by goreplant » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:43 pm

hi Dave
have you had a look at the heater/flame start on the inlet manifold.
I have had these leak diesel into the manifold and give over fuelling/white smoke.
very easy to check, just undo the fuel pipe and spade connector and remove from the manifold, if its wet at the end with diesel its knackered

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Re: Perkins phaser 1004 in 3cx running bad

Post #17 by FOWLER MAN » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:21 pm

Hi Dave,
Looking at your video the smoke is clearly unburned fuel. If it was over fuelling from the injector pump the engine would burn the excess fuel and the exhaust would be black.
The likely source of the unburnt fuel is as Goreplant says the "Thermostart" cold start unit leaking fuel into the inlet manifold.
Disconnect and block off the fuell supply pipe to the Thurmostart and see if the smoke goes away.
Good luck .
Fred


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Re: Perkins phaser 1004 in 3cx running bad

Post #18 by davewe11s » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:00 am

Hi guys, thank you all for the reply's.
I went down the injection pump route as the quantity of fuel come from the injector lines seemed to be getting less and less.I got a rebuild kit from ebay, I was surprised how simple it was. There are lots of stories on the web saying 'dont do, go to a pro' etc however for £14 thought it would be worth a go and some good videos on youtube. I stripped, replaced all the seals, blew all the fuel paths out however couldnt see any wear, excessive dirt etc. I put the pump back on the machine still the same symptons and less fuel again. Time to pay someone.. the shop rebuilt (came on the same conclusion as me, nothing wrong), started to test at max rpm and the head sharft sheared. Now all fixed and refitted to the machine. I started it breifly this evening plenty of fuel and no problems starting again but still appeared to be quite a bit of smoke, it does sound better to me though. By accident (diesel all round the injectors) I have spotted that there is a very small amount of air escaping the seal between the injector and the head. I didnt replace the copper washers when i rebuilt the machine, which maybe i should have? would this cause white smoke?

I removed the housing which holds the thermostart to ensure no oil from the turbo or diesel from the termostart was leaking into the air intake. This made no difference.

I have also pressurise the fuel tank to see if any leak offs or anywhere was weaping, no leaks.
I've compression tested with good results.

Im going to give the machine a good run tomorrow and see how she is but would be intrested to know if the injector seal would have this effect?


Thanks again

Dave


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Re: Perkins phaser 1004 in 3cx running bad

Post #19 by essexpete » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:45 am

Well can you tip some soapy water around the injector seats when cranking or idling to see if there is combustion gas escaping?


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Re: Perkins phaser 1004 in 3cx running bad

Post #20 by diggerjones » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:04 pm

I had problems with the last chance filter. It was a little rubber washer thing in there that wasn't sealing. I had trouble bleeding it. Worth a look I suppose


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