A "new" toy.
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:22 am
Hi everyone.
Since the ancestral JCB 3 (New poster, looking for JCB 3 info) contracted a fatal malady, that is, a seized main bearing, my brothers and I have been looking for a successor. And now we have found one:
It is, as the label suggests, a Ford. Initially that was just about all we knew as the engine cowl with nameplate is missing, but I later found a production code and serial number stamped on the flywheel housing: D5011F 3H23? *B929007*, which, according to the internet (specifically http://vintagetractorengineer.com/2009/01/ford-2000-3000-4000-5000-serial-numbers/) means that it is based on a Ford 4000 skid , industrial tractor , diesel , no PTO, 4/4 torque converter transmission, produced in August 23rd, 1973 (day/night shift code is illegible, and at this point in time, irrelevant), in Basildon, England, and may have a weakness for shaken Martinis .
This probably means that it is a 4500 or 4550, and about a decade younger than our erstwhile JCB. Fittingly it has some more modern amenities, like a shuttle shift, and considerably less wear and fewer battle scars. In one way, though, it is more old fashioned: It has four "piano" lever controls for the backhoe (six, if you count the stabilizers), while the JCB had progressed to two lever controls a decade earlier. Looking on the bright side, I never really got proficient with the JCB controls, and expect that it will not be the arrangement of the controls that will limit my productivity with this machine . Talking of backhoe controls, while the main nameplate is missing, this one is still there, on the backhoe controls:
I find the "Copenhagen Denmark" marking interesting. Wonder if that is for the whole backhoe attachment, or just the control valves?
This machine has clocked some 5453 hours before the tachometer resigned it's commission an unknown time ago, which means that it must at some point have been a full-time worker. But it must also have enjoyed regular lubrication as there is very little wear in f.x. the backhoe joints, excepting the bucket linkages. Overall, it seems to be in a very reasonable shape for it's age, but not perfect: The only component of the electrical system that seemed to be fully functional when we got it was the starter motor. I've since got it charging (seized brushes in the alternator that the previous owner had installed instead of the original DC generator and regulator) and found that the ammeter (probably not original) was also working. That is the only instrument that is working. The oil pressure gauge (also probably a later addition) is disintegrating from rust, and the tachometer drive of course disappeared along with the original generator, but I suspect the tach may have seized at some point before that. In fact, the whole original instrument panel had been disconnected at some point. All of this, however, can be rectified at small cost and reasonable effort.
More worrying is the occasional lack of drive. The previous owner did warn us that he had had some drive problems. The first thing we did when we acquired it was replacing oil and filters for both the engine and transmission, along with fuel and hydraulic filter, and "topping up" the hydraulic system to the tune of 40 liters or so of fluid. This was before starting a 60 km trek home, including two mountain roads. This trek actually went quite well; the transmission was a bit sluggish on the steeper and longer inclines, but nothing that downshifting didn't solve. The real problem came when we had it home, and I decided to give it a try at actual work. I collected a couple of hefty stones in the front bucket and took them to a brook we want to dam. I stupidly went to close to the brook and got myself stuck. It took a 4x4 pulling along with the backhoe to free it. Back on solid ground, I tried to back away under wheeled power, but no dice. Okay, maybe the trans was overheating, so kill engine for half an hour or so to cool down. Try again, and relief! It moved under it's own power. So back away and do a three point turn in a safe location. Errm, no go when shifting to forward . At this point we decided that it would take forever to get back home at this rate, so we went and got a 4wd tractor with some serious pulling power. When we got back, after about another half-hour, the digger had recovered sufficiently to move under it's own power for maybe 100 meters, where it met with a sandy incline and decided it was too weary. So, back to the homestead in ignominious tow. However, the next day I got to work on the alternator and then let it idle for maybe an hour or so to charge the battery. Before shutting it down, I decided to try the transmission again, and this time it worked, at least for a short drive, including reverse and forward .
Additional info: When the drive fails, the forward/reverse control lever can be moved as usual, so apparently not this problem; http://www.mytractorforum.com/20-ford-new-holland-tractors/200950-ca-1965-ford-4500-backhoe-converter-problem.html or at least not precisely. The trans seems to apply some torque; you can just see the tires budge if you rev the motor to the limit, but not sufficient to get rolling, even in first gear on reasonably hard and level ground. The trans hydraulic lines and filter do not get warm to the touch, but when I removed the filler cap to get a dipstick in, smoke/vapour came out. Clogged lines? The filter is new, but with enough crud in the system it may still have gotten clogged. When drive is working it can be a bit tricky finding neutral on the forward/reverse lever, which can lead to some grinding when changing gears. Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
Another question: What fluid should we use for the trans? We were sold what appears to be standard ATF (a whole lot of numbers/certifications on the can, among them Dexron II, red in colour), but I'm not entirely convinced that this is right for this transmission. Finally, what is the difference between 4500 and 4550 digger?
--
Best regards,
Kári.
Since the ancestral JCB 3 (New poster, looking for JCB 3 info) contracted a fatal malady, that is, a seized main bearing, my brothers and I have been looking for a successor. And now we have found one:
It is, as the label suggests, a Ford. Initially that was just about all we knew as the engine cowl with nameplate is missing, but I later found a production code and serial number stamped on the flywheel housing: D5011F 3H23? *B929007*, which, according to the internet (specifically http://vintagetractorengineer.com/2009/01/ford-2000-3000-4000-5000-serial-numbers/) means that it is based on a Ford 4000 skid , industrial tractor , diesel , no PTO, 4/4 torque converter transmission, produced in August 23rd, 1973 (day/night shift code is illegible, and at this point in time, irrelevant), in Basildon, England, and may have a weakness for shaken Martinis .
This probably means that it is a 4500 or 4550, and about a decade younger than our erstwhile JCB. Fittingly it has some more modern amenities, like a shuttle shift, and considerably less wear and fewer battle scars. In one way, though, it is more old fashioned: It has four "piano" lever controls for the backhoe (six, if you count the stabilizers), while the JCB had progressed to two lever controls a decade earlier. Looking on the bright side, I never really got proficient with the JCB controls, and expect that it will not be the arrangement of the controls that will limit my productivity with this machine . Talking of backhoe controls, while the main nameplate is missing, this one is still there, on the backhoe controls:
I find the "Copenhagen Denmark" marking interesting. Wonder if that is for the whole backhoe attachment, or just the control valves?
This machine has clocked some 5453 hours before the tachometer resigned it's commission an unknown time ago, which means that it must at some point have been a full-time worker. But it must also have enjoyed regular lubrication as there is very little wear in f.x. the backhoe joints, excepting the bucket linkages. Overall, it seems to be in a very reasonable shape for it's age, but not perfect: The only component of the electrical system that seemed to be fully functional when we got it was the starter motor. I've since got it charging (seized brushes in the alternator that the previous owner had installed instead of the original DC generator and regulator) and found that the ammeter (probably not original) was also working. That is the only instrument that is working. The oil pressure gauge (also probably a later addition) is disintegrating from rust, and the tachometer drive of course disappeared along with the original generator, but I suspect the tach may have seized at some point before that. In fact, the whole original instrument panel had been disconnected at some point. All of this, however, can be rectified at small cost and reasonable effort.
More worrying is the occasional lack of drive. The previous owner did warn us that he had had some drive problems. The first thing we did when we acquired it was replacing oil and filters for both the engine and transmission, along with fuel and hydraulic filter, and "topping up" the hydraulic system to the tune of 40 liters or so of fluid. This was before starting a 60 km trek home, including two mountain roads. This trek actually went quite well; the transmission was a bit sluggish on the steeper and longer inclines, but nothing that downshifting didn't solve. The real problem came when we had it home, and I decided to give it a try at actual work. I collected a couple of hefty stones in the front bucket and took them to a brook we want to dam. I stupidly went to close to the brook and got myself stuck. It took a 4x4 pulling along with the backhoe to free it. Back on solid ground, I tried to back away under wheeled power, but no dice. Okay, maybe the trans was overheating, so kill engine for half an hour or so to cool down. Try again, and relief! It moved under it's own power. So back away and do a three point turn in a safe location. Errm, no go when shifting to forward . At this point we decided that it would take forever to get back home at this rate, so we went and got a 4wd tractor with some serious pulling power. When we got back, after about another half-hour, the digger had recovered sufficiently to move under it's own power for maybe 100 meters, where it met with a sandy incline and decided it was too weary. So, back to the homestead in ignominious tow. However, the next day I got to work on the alternator and then let it idle for maybe an hour or so to charge the battery. Before shutting it down, I decided to try the transmission again, and this time it worked, at least for a short drive, including reverse and forward .
Additional info: When the drive fails, the forward/reverse control lever can be moved as usual, so apparently not this problem; http://www.mytractorforum.com/20-ford-new-holland-tractors/200950-ca-1965-ford-4500-backhoe-converter-problem.html or at least not precisely. The trans seems to apply some torque; you can just see the tires budge if you rev the motor to the limit, but not sufficient to get rolling, even in first gear on reasonably hard and level ground. The trans hydraulic lines and filter do not get warm to the touch, but when I removed the filler cap to get a dipstick in, smoke/vapour came out. Clogged lines? The filter is new, but with enough crud in the system it may still have gotten clogged. When drive is working it can be a bit tricky finding neutral on the forward/reverse lever, which can lead to some grinding when changing gears. Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
Another question: What fluid should we use for the trans? We were sold what appears to be standard ATF (a whole lot of numbers/certifications on the can, among them Dexron II, red in colour), but I'm not entirely convinced that this is right for this transmission. Finally, what is the difference between 4500 and 4550 digger?
--
Best regards,
Kári.