3CX overheat :(

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McSpud
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Re: 3CX overheat :(

Post #31 by McSpud » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:19 pm

Thats interesting - was it difficult to remove the oil radiator to get into the engine one?


ErwinPWP
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Re: 3CX overheat :(

Post #32 by ErwinPWP » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:45 pm

I’ve an old 1982 3CX with cooling problems.

During the first job I discovered that the engine didn’t reach its working temperature.
I did some investigations and I found that somebody (previous owner?) has removed the thermostat.
The only reason for removing this thermostat is an overheating problem.

I’m now trying to find the root cause of the overheating problem (broken thermostat, broken water pump, blown head gasket, radiator internally or externally blocked with dirt).

A blown head gasket is most probably the root cause but I also do not have the real symptoms of a bad head gasket.
The coolant level doesn’t drop and it’s still very clean. No white smoke out of de exhaust pipe. No mayonnaise-like engine oil. No pressurizing of the coolant system by the engine (as far as I did my test right):

Here is how I test it:

My 3CX has a coolant expansion reservoir which is situated on the injection pump side of the engine, mounted in the chassis beam. This reservoir has a pressure cap.
I removed this cap and with the engine running (cold engine!) I’ve put my hand on this cap and I wasn’t able to feel a pressure build up by the engine.
My 3CX has another cap on its coolant system (don’t know if yours has this cap, see picture below).

Image

If I remove this cap and start the engine, the water spills out of this opening. I think this isn’t due to a possible blown head gasket but because this opening is on top of the spinning water pump and the thermostat is absent.

And finally I also can hear some rising bubbles in the radiator after stopping the engine!

McSpud, you can check the following things on your machine.

1) Remove the cap from your expansion reservoir (or if your machine doesn’t has it you can remove the radiator cap) and check with a running engine if you can feel pressure build up (by putting your complete hand on the opening).
2) Does your engine have a cap on top of the engine? If yes is there water coming out with a running engine? Maybe you have to test this also with a removed thermostat.

If there’s no pressure build up at the radiator or expansion reservoir, an when there’s water coming out of the cap on top of the thermostat the water pump of your machine might be OK.

Be sure that the engine is cold before you start with these 2 tests (otherwise hazard to burn your hand)!!

Does your machine have an oil radiator? If yes you have to remove this to be able to remove the engine radiator.
I’ve to remove my water pump because the drive shaft is in bad condition (radial play).
The 2 connections of the hydraulic hoses on the bottom of the radiator are quite rusted on my machine. There is a risk to damage the radiator when trying to loose the hoses. Therefore I decided to loose the hoses at the shuttle box and pull out the radiator complete with the 2 hoses. Before this action you first have to drain the oil from the shuttle box.

Cheers and good luck.


PS. And I hope also that I do not need to replace the head gasket!


jcb1968
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Re: 3CX overheat :(

Post #33 by jcb1968 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:08 am

ErwinPWP wrote:I’ve an old 1982 3CX with cooling problems.

During the first job I discovered that the engine didn’t reach its working temperature.
I did some investigations and I found that somebody (previous owner?) has removed the thermostat.
The only reason for removing this thermostat is an overheating problem.

I’m now trying to find the root cause of the overheating problem (broken thermostat, broken water pump, blown head gasket, radiator internally or externally blocked with dirt).

A blown head gasket is most probably the root cause but I also do not have the real symptoms of a bad head gasket.
The coolant level doesn’t drop and it’s still very clean. No white smoke out of de exhaust pipe. No mayonnaise-like engine oil. No pressurizing of the coolant system by the engine (as far as I did my test right):

Here is how I test it:

My 3CX has a coolant expansion reservoir which is situated on the injection pump side of the engine, mounted in the chassis beam. This reservoir has a pressure cap.
I removed this cap and with the engine running (cold engine!) I’ve put my hand on this cap and I wasn’t able to feel a pressure build up by the engine.
My 3CX has another cap on its coolant system (don’t know if yours has this cap, see picture below).

Image

If I remove this cap and start the engine, the water spills out of this opening. I think this isn’t due to a possible blown head gasket but because this opening is on top of the spinning water pump and the thermostat is absent.

And finally I also can hear some rising bubbles in the radiator after stopping the engine!

McSpud, you can check the following things on your machine.

1) Remove the cap from your expansion reservoir (or if your machine doesn’t has it you can remove the radiator cap) and check with a running engine if you can feel pressure build up (by putting your complete hand on the opening).
2) Does your engine have a cap on top of the engine? If yes is there water coming out with a running engine? Maybe you have to test this also with a removed thermostat.

If there’s no pressure build up at the radiator or expansion reservoir, an when there’s water coming out of the cap on top of the thermostat the water pump of your machine might be OK.

Be sure that the engine is cold before you start with these 2 tests (otherwise hazard to burn your hand)!!

Does your machine have an oil radiator? If yes you have to remove this to be able to remove the engine radiator.
I’ve to remove my water pump because the drive shaft is in bad condition (radial play).
The 2 connections of the hydraulic hoses on the bottom of the radiator are quite rusted on my machine. There is a risk to damage the radiator when trying to loose the hoses. Therefore I decided to loose the hoses at the shuttle box and pull out the radiator complete with the 2 hoses. Before this action you first have to drain the oil from the shuttle box.

Cheers and good luck.


PS. And I hope also that I do not need to replace the head gasket!




Hi,
I had overheating proplems in my '82 3CX, and as u described, there’s no pressure build up at the radiator or expansion reservoir, and coolant blows out through the cap circled.
Like you, the thermostat was missing, I put in a new one, and problem solved.
The expansion reservior still doesn't have any build up of pressure and i don't know what it there for :?
but im happy that my 3cx runs ally day at 82 :D
1982 3CX4 sitemaster


agrimax
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Re: 3CX overheat :(

Post #34 by agrimax » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:28 am

Discovered many years ago that my 82 3cx(perkins) must have a thermostat fitted,otherwise it would overheat.Reckoned that there was too much flow/splashing about from the pump,in the thermostat housing, and the water was not actually being pushed into the radiator.Another thing too, is that the brass cap on top of the thermo' housing MUST be sealed tight,so that air cannot get in.System has to be closed and pressurised.Tried new caps and new cork seals but they made no difference.Ended up cutting a piece of rubber car tube to fit inside of cap and problem solved.


ErwinPWP
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Re: 3CX overheat :(

Post #35 by ErwinPWP » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:02 am

I had overheating proplems in my '82 3CX, and as u described, there’s no pressure build up at the radiator or expansion reservoir, and coolant blows out through the cap circled.
Like you, the thermostat was missing, I put in a new one, and problem solved.
The expansion reservior still doesn't have any build up of pressure and i don't know what it there for
but im happy that my 3cx runs ally day at 82

OK must probably the thermostat has been removed on your machine because it was stuck or broken.
Till now I think this was the same reason why the thermostat has been removed from my machine.
Before pulling the cylinder head I’ll also put in a new thermostat and hopefully my 82 3CX will run at normal operating temperature without overheating like yours.

Discovered many years ago that my 82 3cx(perkins) must have a thermostat fitted,otherwise it would overheat.Reckoned that there was too much flow/splashing about from the pump,in the thermostat housing, and the water was not actually being pushed into the radiator.Another thing too, is that the brass cap on top of the thermo' housing MUST be sealed tight,so that air cannot get in.System has to be closed and pressurised.Tried new caps and new cork seals but they made no difference.Ended up cutting a piece of rubber car tube to fit inside of cap and problem solved.

Indeed the sealing of this cap is very important. On another machine I used Hylomar Blue sealant the seal this cap. It’s very good stuff for this job.


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