International B-414

[scubasteve]

thanks Trevor, i have everything you mentioned except a metal lathe. i was thinking of making a cradle that would hang from the top of the block which would then support my 20 ton jack underneath the block and use it as a sort of reverse press. a bit complicated but its the only thing i can think of with the tool and gear i have. do you think that may work?
I've already tried just jacking up using the weight of the tractor and all I'm doing is lifting the front of the ground.

[Mrsmackpaul]

mate if you have a welder and are not going to reuse the sleeves you can just run it up and down the inside of the sleeves and when they cool they shrink in a bit and you should be able to pull them out reel easy BUTTTTTTTTTTT
as Trevor says is the best way because you will need to make something up like he says to push the new ones in as well because despite what a lot of people claim it is never wise to tap them back in you can nice and gentle with a cheap quick home made puller

Paul

[scubasteve]

thanks Paul, I'm a little bit worried about the running a weld up the inside of the sleeve because i read an article on the net where some mechanic was saying that he has seen where they have used to much heat and actually welded the sleeve to the block. That's the last thing i need, and if it where to happen to anyone it would happen to me "LUCKY STEVE" so do you know where there is a plan of this puller or a picture of one. I've heard about them but not seen one yet, thanks again, see ya.

[Mrsmackpaul]

mate have a gander at some of these
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=home+made+diesel+engine+liner+puller&rlz=1C1SFXN_enAU546AU546&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=SUMEVID6Lse8uASwzoCQDA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=667

should give you some ideas pretty simple to make something up Paul

[TrevorJ]

I would have to go and find the specs of the sleeve but a simple liner puller is fairly easy if you've got the time.

I don't have a lathe either, so the two plate idea works ... and the reality is the two plates don't actually need to be welded together and instead rely solely on the tight central hole where the threaded bar slips through, the top one can simply be to line up the bottom plate which is just a whisker smaller than the outer sleeve diameter. If unjoined, more care would need to be taken to line the bottom plate, as well as the bottom plate would need to be thicker to take the strain.

Thus you need to cut out two circles pieces of steel drill a 5/8 hole and then proceed to grind them down to the correct dimensions - spin up on a crude drill rig whilst using an angle grinder to trim. If you've not done this before, be careful, use a crude rest for the grinder and try not to let the grinder "follow" as for the initial "smoothing" the drill rpms will be slow.

As I mentioned, 5/8 would be the choice of all-thread in high tensile. Fine unf thread will make for an easier job. the length required - 6 inches or 15 cm longer than the sleeve should be OK. You'll need a couple of nuts as well.

The amount of force can be quite substantial before some stubborn sleeves will move - but they will.

The top plate requires a hole for the threaded bar and needs to be thick enough to support 15 to 20 ton when placed on two blocks on either side of the sleeve. Steel is good, but a good quality aussie hardwood 3x2 can do the job but needs a wide steel washer or complete thin top plate to stop the wood splitting as well as spreading the load. It all depends what you've good lying around.

Make sure once assembled in the sleeve, the threaded bar is centralised, before proceeding to tighten with enough force to pull the liner out.

Stubborn liners may be assisted with some light tapping from below especially if the puller has been tighted considerably without any apparent movement.

Welding: Apart from the obvious issue of hot slag or metal splatter (migs are especially bad for splatter) falling onto journals and into other possible no go areas, the problem with welding is "arcing" from the earth onto the contact point on the liner if the earth lead is placed "somewhere" on the engine rather than on the actual liner to be welded.

If making a puller is going to take too long, then, though I've not tried it, cooling the sleeve down with dry ice might do the trick, just need some creative wadding with newspaper or rags to place the dry ice on, with the jack already set up to jack upwards. However I think you need to make up a cradle or secure the block to the ground in some manner as a couple of ton of force isn't likely to do much at all ... but you never know it could just about fall out if the sleeve shrunk enough.

[smokin' joe]

hey team, newbie to old diesils here.
having recently purchased a "hard starting" B414. i need some rebuild advice.

i tidied up the starter, checked and tidied glow system and had injectors tested.
was still very hard to start (low compression ?) but did eventually get it going, and it very knocky (bearings / piston slap ?)
i can get rebuild parts for a decent amount, but have never mucked around with the old liner type motors.

so:
if i get a liner/piston/ring kit, is there any machining to be done to the liners to fit the pistons ?
likewise if i need a crank kit, will the bearings be matched to the journels ?

[Mrsmackpaul]

before I spent any money I would try and find out whats causing the knock new liners might need a hone I think most come honed now before ordering bearings I would have thought it wise to check the crank for size and roundness first then check order what is needed to suit

oh yeah welcome aboard

Paul

[Jeremy Rowland]

hey team, newbie to old diesils here.
having recently purchased a "hard starting" B414. i need some rebuild advice.

i tidied up the starter, checked and tidied glow system and had injectors tested.
was still very hard to start (low compression ?) but did eventually get it going, and it very knocky (bearings / piston slap ?)
i can get rebuild parts for a decent amount, but have never mucked around with the old liner type motors.

so:
if i get a liner/piston/ring kit, is there any machining to be done to the liners to fit the pistons ?
likewise if i need a crank kit, will the bearings be matched to the journels ?

Hi Joe; first you need to establish the cause of the knock to make sure that it is not 'diesel knock' then once you are sure that the engine knocking is mechanical you need to remove the heads and the pistons, you will have your answer then. Before ripping the lump apart check that you have a good clean fuel supply to the fuel injection pump, use a temporary fuel supply if need be. Best of luck let us know how you get on.

Jeremy

[smokin' joe]

before I spent any money I would try and find out whats causing the knock liners might need a hone I think most come honed now before ordering bearings I would have thought it wise to check the crank for size and roundness first then check order what is needed to suit

oh yeah welcome aboard

Paul

i was figuring that the extra $400 + tax for a new crank would include matched bearings ?
last time (6-7 years ago) a 4 cylinder crank grind plus mains/ bigends was most of that.

trying to cover bases before i start stripping down (if i do). i do have it listed for sale as a good loader with a rooted tractor, but if there no interest and i have the cash, i will strip bottom end first. I suspect the knocking is a spun big end causing piston-head contact........... i hope i am wrong, but as stated am new to old diesil engines with liners, and the knock could be a piston issue ? unsure.
we bit dissapionted but, you cannot expect too much more for the money paid, on a sight unseen tractor that is of that age, aye.

what are people's thoughts one a savage knock around #1 bore ??
are they prone to anything failing with age ?

Hi Joe; first you need to establish the cause of the knock to make sure that it is not 'diesel knock' then once you are sure that the engine knocking is mechanical you need to remove the heads and the pistons, you will have your answer then. Before ripping the lump apart check that you have a good clean fuel supply to the fuel injection pump, use a temporary fuel supply if need be. Best of luck let us know how you get on.

Jeremy

when people use the term "diesil knock" are they referring to pre-ignition (like a pertol) or the knock one gets with either a stuck injector or water in the injector ( like later model diesils) ?

thanks

[Jeremy Rowland]

Yes Joe 'diesel knock' can sound like a stuck injector or a rough running and noisy motor; what made me wonder was that you said it was a difficult engine to start, it could of course be down to what you suspect however its always best to make sure that you have checked out the cheaper options before stripping an engine.

Jeremy