The Classic Machinery Network

Hi Guys, checked the water in my B414 yesterday and was shocked to find a inch of disgusting brown mousse on the top of the radiator, I checked the oil in the sump, no sign of water in the oil, so am thinking cylinder head gasket gone, what is confusing me is that the water level is still high, no bubbling....
I kinow that the filler neck is perforated, which means no pressure in the colling system, so am wondering if this pressure differential is causing oil seepage into the water.....


want to try anything rather than take the head off!

thanks

Welcome to the forum

My guess is you've got pressurised oil getting into the water - if you have an inch of the stuff on the top. It wouldn't take much oil to do that so you're not going to note a difference in the oil level.

A good guess is this is occurring at the head gasket area, it's a relatively simple fix. Of course it could be corrosion into an oil corridor near a water jacket, but that is less likely and one would have to very unlucky.

If the water system were pressurised, IMO it would still happen, just slower.

Thank you Trevor, I guess I was hoping for something simpler, it is a real bind getting the head off with the loader attached, but at least its a simple fix


it is 15 years since I did it last time, you would think these gaskets would last!

Hi Kevin and welcome to CMN I would check the oil cooler before looking at the head gasket (assuming that there is one fitted to that engine) because that would give you the symptoms that you describe, good luck with it and let us know what you find.

Jeremy

I had the same on a hitachi when the oil cooler started failing. I'd rather have done the head gasket but it worked!

Hi Guys, no oil cooler on this engine that I can see


am going to try to boost water pressure and reduce crankcase pressure as a last resort before taking the head off....
this engine has always been cranky, when I built it first time round, found that it would boil with the thermostat in place, but run like a dream with the thermostat removed!
tell the truth, always been a bit worried about the engine, I bought the tractor as a non-runner because some moron had run it without water and a piston had picked up and taken the liner with it .
put new liner and piston in, but was not impressed with the glorified O ring that sealed it, and it was a bitch to get to seat properly....
re-built bottom end and oil pressure has been great, especially with the classic 20w50 she runs on.

she doesnt work that hard, only has to Top and chain harrow twice a year, and pick up my winter wood during the summer, but when I need her, she always comes through.

Oil in the water, is better than water in the oil, which is why I wouldn't recommend what you're thinking as a last resort.

If you're not using the tractor that much as you say, you could just drop the water out ofter the tractor has cooled down at the end of every day in use and refill the system fresh.

I would probably suggest as a last resort to go for mixing in a suitable emulsifier into the fresh water, so the oil doesn't collect in the system when the tractor is working. I do not know what would be the best emulsifier in your situation. I would imagine soluble oil (used as a cutting fluid) would probably be a good emulsifier for cleaning up extra oil in the system. (eg http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=13&id_subcateg=211&id_products=128) (I have not seen soluble oil for radiators (sold in little tins) in my area for a while but I suppose that might attest to the present lack a diverse market in my region. I used the stuff for a good while in a petrol Datsun engine without any issues.)

I will also have a look through a couple of pdfs I have downloaded, one on them included an interesting method of cleansing the water system, but this was in regard to a Russian tractor engine. I think it mentioned a fair bit of kero mixed with some other compound I would never thought of putting into the radiator system and then working it for an extended period. It might be the shot until you have time to fix it.

Thanks Trevor that is really helpful!

the tractor seems to be running OK with the oil in the water, so if I can keep it going that way I am content.
I never heard of oil for radiators or emulsifiers, but have heard of baking soda being used to flush out these rads in the past, but it seems a bit harsh.
I will try to get more of the mousse/gunk out this weekend, so I can get an idea of how fast it is accrueing.


thanks again!

PS, I am in UK, on the English/Welsh border, where are you?

Australia, Queensland - about 21* South approximately 20 km inland on the east coast. Presently nice weather if only one had the time to enjoy it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_parallel_south

All I can say, for cleaning, is avoid using the caustic soda (NaOH) "main ingredient" types. They do clean, maybe they are good for the one time ever "quick" clean, but from myself getting caught twice, it seems repeated exposure causes bloom in the copper based material used in radiators.

Edit: I couldn't find the pdf I was thinking of in my collection but had a look on the web and found what I think is about the same.

http://www.mtzequipment.com/sites/default/files/manuals/new_manuals/3.2%20Technical%20maintenance%20of%204cyl_Mercer_engine%20and%20its%20parts_Eng.pdf

Emptied and 2 L of kerosene poured in followed with Sodium carbonate 50 - 60 g/L solution.

Thanks Trevor!, just getting prepared for thunderstorms and torrential rain here, does not look like I will get a chance to do much on the engine next few days, also my MGBGT has sprung a leak, and I go to the pub in that so it comes first!

all the best.