chocolate mousse in the radiator

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Mrsmackpaul
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Re: chocolate mousse in the radiator

Post #21 by Mrsmackpaul » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:39 pm

With out knowing how much you have apart can you seal up both ends of the cooling system ( disconnect the radiator and plug each radiator hose) and the pressurize it with the sump off and see were the coolant is coming from
This takes a lot of guess work out of it
I wouldnt go any more than 30 psi

Oh and make sure its full of water when you do this

I must be a tight ass as I dont like throwing money at a problem and hoping it will fix it, although some times we have no further option but I prefer to prove as much as I can before spending my hard earned

It is important to leave the radiator out of the system I feel as they are the weakest spot on a cooling system and dont handle to much pressure very well and we know the problem isnt there anyway so no point in wrecking it
If a liner is shot you may have wind the motor over slowly by hand to expose the leak

Paul
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FOWLER MAN
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Re: chocolate mousse in the radiator

Post #22 by FOWLER MAN » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:19 am

Hi Kevin,
I've stayed out of this one till now, it's impossible to say what is causing your problem without being hands on and even then, as you well know, it can be very difficult to pin point.
What Paul says about pressure testing makes good sense. I don't think the leak to the sump would be affected just by the engine being warm but when you stop a hot engine the cooling system is pressurised.
The pressure is controlled by the pressure, (filler), cap and may be as much as 7 lbs sq. in. that may well be enough to force coolant past a dodgy "O" ring until that pressure has dropped off.
No one has mentioned the cylinder head yet, but Is there an engine recon shop near you that could pressure test the head while you've got it off should the need arise?
Good luck.
Fred


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magnetman
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Re: chocolate mousse in the radiator

Post #23 by magnetman » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:59 am

Thanks Guys, good points you make...
currently , head and sump are off and one piston is out waiting new rings, frankly, if I could get hold of the right puller, I would change all the liners as a matter of course, but I dont have one of those and getting the liners out is a swine!,

pressure testing is going to be hard, as tractor is in my barn which is about 300 yards from nearest tap, i will have to work something out...
re the pressure of a hot engine when switched off, I am ashamed to admit that the radiator filler cap surround needs re-brazing so leaks like a sieve, so system is not actually under pressure at all....

Paul, I am fascinated by this"If a liner is shot you may have wind the motor over slowly by hand to expose the leak"

where would I see the leak? are you saying to rebuild the top end but leave the sump off and turn it over by hand ?

sorry to be dim....

Kevin


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Re: chocolate mousse in the radiator

Post #24 by Mrsmackpaul » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:24 am

If the hole in the sleeve is past one of the rings and the piston is a bottom dead center it may cover the leak and yet not let compression thru

Hearing how for your into it I would now just pull the sleeves, most people just make a puller out of some large threaded rod and a couple of bits of thick steel plate
You can use all sorts of stuff up top to give clearance
If you find some pipe bigger than the sleeve you can use that
I would also check that the head is still flat and check it for cracks as well
Fred is pretty switched on bloke and he has a lot more experience than me at this stuff, I am just a self taught farmer that fixes my own gear and mates of mine as well

Paul
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magnetman
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Re: chocolate mousse in the radiator

Post #25 by magnetman » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:28 pm

Hi Guys, just found a potential answer...
put the old head gasket on the head and noticed by the carbon marks that it was not aligned true, the ferrule from one cut-out was actually in a waterway....
still confused why it should take over 12 years to manifest as a problem, but guess the low use of the tractor, and not re-torquing the head after initial assembly might have something to do with it!


will re-build it up now, (with some studs to act as locators) and will let you know if it is watertight....
I have always assembled head gaskets dry, but know some people swear by some kind of sealant.. what are your thoughts?

thanks

Kevin


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Re: chocolate mousse in the radiator

Post #26 by hair bear » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:25 pm

We used to smear them with grease! I have no idea why, it was something my dad always did and on the now rare occasions that I get so desperate with something that I take the head off I do too.
If a LandRover doesn't leak oil, it's run out.


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Re: chocolate mousse in the radiator

Post #27 by magnetman » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:14 pm

Update:

Hi Guys, got head back on and built up( why does the manual give you a head torquing sequence, when you cant access 3 bolts when the valve gear is on? and why tell you to set valve clearances to 20 thou "hot" when you are building up a cold engine!)

anyway, I found an old gouge on the engine block, between a waterway and oilway, maybe not the problem but I filled it with epoxy anyway...

found a broken piston ring, replaced that.
got engine started, went straight out and did 3 hours of chain-harrowing, and this morning found no water in the oil, so think probably OK....
radiator has sprung a leak though, so will be using barrs leaks as insurance...


by the way, how much oil should be in these things? my operators manual says 9 pints, but my shop manual says 8.3 quarts!


thanks for all your help and support!

Kevin


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Re: chocolate mousse in the radiator

Post #28 by TrevorJ » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:50 am

Pleased to read you got to the bottom of the problem ... and it wasn't much of a head or block corrosion. The gouge didn't help things - and sorted.

Most old ag gear isn't a gasket type already primed with a sealant type (meant to be a single tension fix.) I pretty much use copper head gasket spray to the head gasket and leave dry the other contact surfaces are smeared with oil just enough to ensure the gasket doesn't bond. Really nice when something when really wrong (999999 people out of 1000000 would never have some of the funny things I've endured) and it needs sorting with the head coming off.

I add in an extra step, I tighten and leave overnight. Then back the next day or if in paddock, next time I'm there, back off all the bolts slightly (in order) and tension once more - this accounts for settling (or if one is "unlucky" like myself, sorts out stupid "funny b.ggers" who think they are pretty slick with their pranks - and yes, that happened.)

Tensioning hard to get to spots ... I can't recall b414 off the top of my head. I've got a 414 project I should have got to at least three years ago, but last 5 half years have been nightmarish my way.

Oil. I would have to look at the book myself. Usually I simply go to the full mark assuming the dip stick is still original and in good shape (the shaft hasn't slipped.)


Fred wrote "No one has mentioned the cylinder head yet, ...

:) I did indirectly -- "Of course it could be corrosion into an oil corridor near a water jacket, but that is less likely and one would have to very unlucky.

Last major fix I did was a fordson power major engine, previously "patched" corrosion where sleeve oring seats, new fangled green junk in radiator meant for new cars also loved chewing cast iron and patch material.

Also note, when using any agent in water ways to check their performance with hot water immersion ... it blew me away how many "trusted" brands were ... not suitable. JB water weld topped in water immersion temps.

When I got going I tried soluble cutting oil rather than any radiator designed soluble oil ... performed well, no notable difference.

https://www.jamecpem.com/oil-machine-cutting~4770


[offtopic] Actually I was reminded of this thread just a couple months back. I had dropped the soluble oil mix it out to clean the system out it appeared to have accumulated some gunk, and spent a couple weeks with just water ... then inexplicably one afternoon not quarter of an hour of starting the old girl and just getting to the first run ... foamed like there was no tomorrow, let it settle and topped up from my drink bottle, hadn't even got that hot, so limped home. I'm a patient observer, and I dare say if it were my "fast and furious" brother the head would have been off minutes after getting it back to the shed ... I figure failures and causes of "really bad luck" for gaslighters though these days ... and was correct, just some smart ---- had added in foaming agent, sort of guessed right from when I drained the water out onto the ground it was obviously some chemical ... still had to check and tension the head just to be sure it didn't get too hot. A couple of flushes and tension it was all sorted, worked perfectly for a number of days. (Oh and idiot did return to try again - but catching evidence they'd been at the cap, easily sorted whatever they tried this time around.)


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