I'm In Need Of Some Advice

Talk about everything else here.
User avatar

Topic author
IBH
Posts: 1769
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:07 pm
Real name: IBH
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 48 times

I'm In Need Of Some Advice

Post #1 by IBH » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:06 pm

Myself and a work colleague are in need of some informal advice concerning plant licensing requirements and after some research i've pretty much drawn a blank, so I was wondering if anyone had any idea or could point me in the right direction so to speak concerning the following.

Background- My Boss and I were using a self-loading JCB Dumpster to move Hardcore to construct some paths on a site operated by the Charity we work for, over the last two days. This morning I was operating the Dumpster (having done so on 2 previous occasions) and I was stopped by someone more senior than my boss and asked if I had a licence to us it and who gave me permission to use it.
The answer was 'no' and my boss was duly told I couldn't use it.
Now my boss understands that to operate a Dumpster or similar tracked power-barrow a specific license isn't required, and we've tried to ascertain if he or I can operate it with without holding a CPCS card for forward tipping dumpers?
My boss got a polite bollocking about me using the Dumpster, even though unbeknown to Mr Big Cheese my boss hasn't got a license either and the department in the organisation he borrowed the equipment from never asked about licences when he borrowed the Dumpster and we know that persons employed by the department operate the Dumpster without training/cards on sites but nothing has been said or discovered yet.

Sorry to waffle on, but can he or I legally operate a Dumpster without holding a specific licencse or card in a commercial non-DIY situation?

Any help or advice you would be greatly appreciated
IBH


go back
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:05 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: I'm In Need Of Some Advice

Post #2 by go back » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:17 pm

i was always led to believe that if you are competent and have been trained to use it and covered by insurance a letter from someone to say so will surfice because i have been on hire to firms that would not reconise the very nice cpcs cards and have worked ok


Nick Drew
Posts: 4611
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:10 pm
Real name: Nick Drew
Has thanked: 356 times
Been thanked: 182 times

Re: I'm In Need Of Some Advice

Post #3 by Nick Drew » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:29 pm

Bring back the good old days when you could just jump on anything I say !!

Nick
Why not visit my Digger Man Blog at Earthmovers http://www.earthmoversmagazine.co.uk/?page_id=3092

Join the Digger Man Blog Facebook page, click on this link to apply to become a member https://www.facebook.com/groups/1422908344617046/

User avatar

Tracshovel
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:40 pm
Real name: Tracshovel
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 36 times
Flag: France

Re: I'm In Need Of Some Advice

Post #4 by Tracshovel » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:00 pm

You do not require a CPCS ticket to operate any machine...legally. The law states that the person should be adequately competent in the safe use and operation of the machine. The CPCS ticket is only a method of proving that. If you have 10 years of experience without incident but no ticket a problem will only arise if you cause an accident. Then the blame culture starts and the question will be asked "was the operator trained in the safe use of the equipment?" if Yes then there must be another reason for the accident, if No then it is your fault + your boss + his boss for letting you play with the dumper without adequate training. It's a catch 22 scenario....how do you prove in a court that you were OK to operate the dumper?. How does your boss prove that his decision was correct to allow you to operate? It is much easier to say no do not use it than letting the person continue. Many times common sense should prevail but not in today's climate of red tape and H&S......not forgetting the biggest financial scam in the construction industry = CITB/CPCS qango.


Nick Drew
Posts: 4611
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:10 pm
Real name: Nick Drew
Has thanked: 356 times
Been thanked: 182 times

Re: I'm In Need Of Some Advice

Post #5 by Nick Drew » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:06 pm

Tracshovel wrote:You do not require a CPCS ticket to operate any machine...legally. The law states that the person should be adequately competent in the safe use and operation of the machine. The CPCS ticket is only a method of proving that. If you have 10 years of experience without incident but no ticket a problem will only arise if you cause an accident. Then the blame culture starts and the question will be asked "was the operator trained in the safe use of the equipment?" if Yes then there must be another reason for the accident, if No then it is your fault + your boss + his boss for letting you play with the dumper without adequate training. It's a catch 22 scenario....how do you prove in a court that you were OK to operate the dumper?. How does your boss prove that his decision was correct to allow you to operate? It is much easier to say no do not use it than letting the person continue. Many times common sense should prevail but not in today's climate of red tape and H&S......not forgetting the biggest financial scam in the construction industry = CITB/CPCS qango.


Very good Summary Tracshovel :thumbs_up:

Nick :thumbs_up:
Why not visit my Digger Man Blog at Earthmovers http://www.earthmoversmagazine.co.uk/?page_id=3092

Join the Digger Man Blog Facebook page, click on this link to apply to become a member https://www.facebook.com/groups/1422908344617046/


martyn williams
Posts: 6385
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:06 pm
Real name: MARTYN WILLIAMS
Location: South Wales
Has thanked: 296 times
Been thanked: 351 times

Re: I'm In Need Of Some Advice

Post #6 by martyn williams » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:46 pm

I agree with Nick, there is far too much control on what you can and can't do when operating machines.My firm organised a forklift course.Some of the staff that were deemed "competant" to operate the forklift after completing the course, were crap at operating one safely.One even knocked down a wall with it just a few weeks later.
Also companies hire out mini excavators to people that have never drivern one before. When I worked for a plant hire firm I ended up operating one for customers after I had finnished work as they were spending hundreds of pounds to hire one and then making a right mess of using one.
Martyn

User avatar

Topic author
IBH
Posts: 1769
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:07 pm
Real name: IBH
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: I'm In Need Of Some Advice

Post #7 by IBH » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:53 am

Thank you for the reply Tracshovel.


Nick Drew
Posts: 4611
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:10 pm
Real name: Nick Drew
Has thanked: 356 times
Been thanked: 182 times

Re: I'm In Need Of Some Advice

Post #8 by Nick Drew » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:03 pm

IBH,

Please keep us informed on how this situation develops? I for one would be very interested to find out how it pans out.

Nick
Why not visit my Digger Man Blog at Earthmovers http://www.earthmoversmagazine.co.uk/?page_id=3092

Join the Digger Man Blog Facebook page, click on this link to apply to become a member https://www.facebook.com/groups/1422908344617046/


spod
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:05 pm
Real name: dave

Re: I'm In Need Of Some Advice

Post #9 by spod » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:20 pm

My understanding is as a charity and therefore voluntary you do not require a certificate for anything so tell Mr. Big Cheese :bow: to swallow another book on reason and common sense.


Return to “Off Topic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests