Orion brakes

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Matchless?58
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Orion brakes

Post #1 by Matchless?58 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:17 pm

Hi all
I have a thwaites Orion dumper , had it a while but just started to ohaul it ready for use on a building project . The brakes are binding badly so I have jacked it up taken off the wheels and am in the process of removing the brake drums . They are rusted in with a combination of rust and old paint badly applied . The nearside came off easily enough after an hour of heat , hammering , WD 40 and swearing but the offside just will not budge even a millimetre despite the same treatment . I have left it soaking in penetrating oil for the night but would welcome suggestions of anything else to try to remove it .
On the one I have already got off the brake linings are absolutely wreaked so a relining job will have to be the way to go . ( When I eventually get the other side off )
Can anybody recommend a brake relining company in Essex ?
Cheers Chris


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Re: Orion brakes

Post #2 by cobbadog » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:00 am

Try backing off the adjustment on the side that is stuck, this might help. As for new linings are yours rivetted on or bonded. If rivetted you can measure the ID of your brake drum and the width of the lining and search for them online even at a tractor or car spare parts. If there is a brake shop nearby they can organise new linings onto your old shoes.
Cheers Cobba


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Re: Orion brakes

Post #3 by Matchless?58 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:31 pm

Thanks for the reply and advice .
I am still trying to remove the stuck brake drum . The drum is turning freely so its not stuck by the shoes themselves . Looks like a combination of rust and corrosion that's holding it . Gonna try some plus gas tomorrow give it a soak with that see what happens . Don't want to hit it too hard as it might damage the hub .
Think brake linings are rivited because the ones I've already got off have shattered through the rivited part and just disintigrated . Assume that the other side is going to be the same . Might try to get the new one's bonded on . Would that be possible ?
I have found a place not to far away that specialises in brakes so when I've got the other side off I will take them down there see what they can do .
I'll let you know how I get on .
Cheers Chris


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Re: Orion brakes

Post #4 by cobbadog » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:30 am

Yes, if your brake shop has the ability to bond the new lining on it certainly can be done on shoes that were rivetted in the past.
Sometimes the shoes do not bind until you start to remove the drum and this would indicate wear inside the drum. I am guessing that the drum is not moving at all.
If this is the case using lots of WD40, CRC or similar products is a must then if that fails you step up to the next level, heat.
Try putting 2 levers between the drum and backing plate if possible, not too hard to bend the plate but juut enough to put a small amount of weight against the drum. Feat the drum near the hub but not the hub as you want the drum to expand and the hub to stay as cool as possible and not expand. Don;t be afraid to get into it with the heat. Even once warm to hot squirt more WD40 onto it as this will suck it into the gap and help as well. Get back to heating again and every now and then pull on the levers a bit and see what happens.
The next step is to hit the hub when the drum is hot with a brass drift smaller than the hub so that you don't burr the hub over while there is weight on the drum from those levers. Always good to have amate to help you or be bloody quick to do all of this at the same time.
One last thing. If there is any flat section of the hub protruding from the drum towards you, use a small file and clean it up so there is no rust or paint there. Let us know how you get on.
Cheers Cobba


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Re: Orion brakes

Post #5 by Matchless?58 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:51 pm

Hooray success at last . I soaked the hub and drum in WD 40 before I left last night . Went there early this morning and caught the bugger while it was still napping , a couple of sharp taps and it suddenly shifted . That's a bit of a relief as I really need to use the dumper . This sort of thing always happens just when you really need to use something . I will be taking the brakes in for relining on Monday morning . I will let you know how I get on / price etc and how long it all takes . Might be of use to someone else to know this .
Thanks for your help and input cobba . All the best Chris


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Re: Orion brakes

Post #6 by cobbadog » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:41 am

So glad that you are making progress. We used to have a brake service centre locally and did all their own bonding at the shop and was same day service as they didn't have to send it away. The last lot of linings we did we riveted as we don't use the tractors for work only the occasional play time at Rallies.
I like the way you say that you"snuck up on it early", well done!
While your waiting for the shoes you can clean up the adjusters and everything else and replace any leaky oil seals that might be there. Patience always wins the game. Yes I do know what you mean when you need something urgently it can go wrong. When I was finishing off the David Brown Cropmaster restoration I thought 'you beauty' it will be ready in time for the big debut at our Rally. B/S, I had no end of carby trouble but I took it anyway and drove it very little and no one said a word. They were either very polite or not aware. At least after another 3 weeks of head bashing I got it sorted.
Cheers Cobba


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Re: Orion brakes

Post #7 by Matchless?58 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:12 pm

Hi
Well the saga of the brakes continues . The brake shop where I was going to take the brakes for relining has gone out of business even though they are still advertising online !
It wasn't until a bit later that evening that I realised that there was something odd about the way the brakes had been fitted . It had been bugging me that something was not right then I twigged it . The previous owner had managed to fit one shoe upside down on each side ! When the spring holes didn't line up he drilled his own holes through the shoes to take the springs . Can't think how he couldn't see that they were not correct . They were not a matching pair each side .
Hence the severe binding of the brakes .
A classic case of if you don't know what you are doing or are not prepared to find out leave it alone .
I have now found another brake specialist to reline the brakes but I got to post them to him . He hasn't yet replied to me with a cost and I'm not going to post without knowing how much . So I might have another look around tomorrow try to get a price .
All this means my little dumper is a useless ornament atm didn't realise how much I have come to rely on it for all those little jobs around the place . Only one thing for it is to get another one so I'm never dumper- less .These little things are addictive and seem to take on their own character .
I would like to try and post with a cost and recommendation it might help someone else with the same problem . Let you know how I get on .
Cheers Chris


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Re: Orion brakes

Post #8 by Jeremy Rowland » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:46 am

Chris glad to hear that you are finally getting things sorted with your dumper brakes. :thumbup:

Jeremy


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Re: Orion brakes

Post #9 by cobbadog » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:39 am

Hi Chris,
Are the old shoes attached with rivets? If they are and you can't find another brake shop who is able to bond the new linings measure the ID of the drum and the width of the brake shoe and buy a set of lining to suit those sizes and rivet them on yourself. It is not hard to do and to spread the new rivets over I used a short length of 3/8" round rod and cut little slots into the end to make it look like a star shape ( * ) and that is more than enough to start the rivet to split then use a ball pein hammer to finish it off. this works a real treat.
For the linings contact your local tractor spare parts shop they will have all sorts of sizes to choose from.
Cheers Cobba


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Re: Orion brakes

Post #10 by Matchless?58 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:35 am

Hi cobba
Thanks for the tip . Must admit I forgot that you can rivet the linings in yourself . It's a case of why didn't I think of that !
I have already posted them off to be relined so a bit late now but I will do it myself next time because this has been a right faff when it didn't need to be .
I will let you know how I get on .
Cheers Chris


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