carnage 3ciii

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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #61 by Jeremy Rowland » Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:04 pm

Getting there so all good progress. :claphands:

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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #62 by MrF » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:00 pm

Not great progress again I'm afraid.
Done some more tests, comparing cylinders 3 & 4, and both had liner protrusion right in the middle of the spec and even all round, I used a depth mic and a clock gauge so fairly sure of my measurements.
Put the head back on, cranked it without fuel, exhaust full of water so stopped before it did damage. Took head off, checked it for flatness again against a scraping master I have and its within a thousandth of a inch over the length but noticed head gasket was upside down and the instructions with the gasket say it has a way up from the stamping pattern to match the liner lip seal (doh).
Reused gasket, but right way up, and left exhaust manifold off, and its wet on cylinder 4 exhaust port only (nearest bellhousing), so not the cylinder with the new liner/piston. I cranked it a bit more then dampness led to water spraying out at which point I stopped before it did more damage.

So, to the post mortem either I screwed the gasket up putting it in the wrong way round and reusing or #4 has a existing water ingress problem too despite having good numbers on the compression test that I didnt know about. I could have screwed up inserting the injector sleeve and its leaking, or maybe it has had a porus liner all along.

I'll order yet another head gasket because whatever is going to involve pulling the head again but has anyone got any ideas on how to check the injector liners for leakage into the cylinder?


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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #63 by Jeremy Rowland » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:43 pm

Hi Phil sorry to hear about your continuing problems; my first step would be to get the head pressure tested to check that any cooling water is not passing an injector sleeve, then you can eliminate the cylinder head from the equation.

You should be able to find an engine re-conditioner who would be able to test the head; I have tested Cummins NH/NT heads in the past by using a cut out rubber seal along with a steel plate with holes cut in it to enable you to bolt the rubber seal to seal the bottom of the heads water jacket just leaving the injector sleeve area exposed, then fill with water and a seal any top parts of the head with suitable plate adaptors and rubber, one with and air valve. You simple apply a small amount of compressed air to pressurise the head and any leaks will quickly become apparent.

While I have no experience of this type of engine my own feeling would be that the issue lies with a leaking injector sleeve and not a liner or head gasket issue, as I say if you get the head pressure tested at least you can rule that one out if its okay, if not you have located your problem.

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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #64 by MrF » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:25 pm

Finding a engine reconditioner locally would be a feat, finding one that speaks leyland over here makes that even more difficult I'm afraid.
But what you describe is doable with what resources I have to hand and fits my stubborn fool mindset, so I'll give it my best shot "in house" (well in my shed anyway).


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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #65 by MrF » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:08 pm

Still havent got it sorted! took the head apart to put new guides in and skim it to be sure, and was considering pulling the block to work on it in the workshop instead of scrabbling round in the engine bay, then fate intervened and I just bought a complete but partially dismantled 1970 jcb 3c2 with clutch issues (it wont disengage) and the cab caved in when the owner rolled it on a bank and they took the back acter off to get it out the situation. The seller is in the same village & I had seen it popping around doing bits then it just disappeared one day so travel restrictions aren't a issue.

While I know it has some differences to mine as it appears to have a inline injection pump so I think that means it has a 38DT engine, what it does have has a really sweet sounding engine in it though there are question marks over the gauge readings after the incident and the oil is contaminated.
Would the collective here know if it is a 38TD if the 38TD will go into my machine as a interim solution? I checked part numbers of clutch disc and other stuff and it appears so, but knowing if anyone has succesfully put a 4/98 in a 3c2 or a 38TD in a 3c3 would be the icing on the cake.
I can cure my leaking jackleg on retraction the easy way if the rams are the same, it has the missing hydraulic door and some other trim, good tyres with new loader tyres up front, 2 narrow bucket and a more suitable sized ditching bucket than the monstrosity I have and lets me cure a slew of other issues.

So any suggestions on what is going to be usable between the 3c2 and 3c3? back acter or loader arms? the gearbox itself? rams?


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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #66 by MrF » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:32 pm

I'll ask in the main digger section too as that gets more eyes than projects (especially one as long winded as this one!)


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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #67 by Jeremy Rowland » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:38 pm

Ahh cheap second hand parts always a good move so long as they fit okay; I'm sure Agrimax will be able to give you some useful advice on that. :thumbup:

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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #68 by MrF » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:06 pm

Well its started to follow me home, so far the rams, back acter hoses, couple of drums of hydraulic oil & all the pins and hydraclamps and the complete dipper itself in the back of the wife's ford galaxy people carrier. I put some hydraulic oil out of a ram and a hole in the rear carpet with the dipper loading it by hand (getting my official exercise in plain air, lasting no more than 3 hours within 20km of my house permitted lock down exercise) so I'm in bad books with her. Its not her main car tho, not sure you could fit a dipper in a clio estate :D

Think the the kingpin/boom + 5 buckets will be a bridge too far to hump into a people carrier as landrover 90/trailer is off the road (and the rear chassis is in bad shape to be towing heavy lumps about...), sprinter is also off road and parked round back with a four-post lift inside, and my landrover 101 is wrecked after a accident involving a ditch and a telegraph pole after a mechanical failure so waiting for a chat with local farmer when he delivers my wood to see if he can shift them with his telehandler, and help me bring the machine itself home on a bar. It is literally 30 ft on the main road through the village then 80ft downhill to our house, but the brake pedal has been cut off at the floorplate level, there's no engine stop/throttle linkage hooked up, the front bucket is removed so no dropping the bucket to emergency stop and the clutch not disengaging is a massive recipe for disaster. Given I'm just starting to get to normality after the 101 accident, I'm going for the sensible option. If you can count hand-balling a dipper into a people carrier with a farm jack and cribbing sensible.


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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #69 by Jeremy Rowland » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:18 pm

You're a brave man carrying a JCB dipper in the back of a Galaxy :shock: thought one of my old bosses pushed it a bit when he took two cylinder block halves of a 'jimmy' 16 in the back of his Renault Extra van, it may have been a bit overloaded.

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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #70 by MrF » Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:18 pm

Its actually not as bad as it reads, because the galaxy was the model design rated for 7 people + luggage full time it has commercial rated tyres and different brakes/suspension to cope and can safely carry a payload of a ton if you remove the rear seating which is all on quick releases and lives mostly in a outbuilding now. I don't know what the weight of the dipper/link/ram is combined, but I bet its well under that as we managed to lift/slide it in manually.
I wanted to start moving it all asap especially the smaller stuff while I sort out something to move the main machine proper, being the good citizen that I am, I want to save the local gypsies from temptation by getting it tucked away in my locked yard as they have been sniffing about it recently.

Pivoting back to the original engine, I stripped & fixtured the head onto a machine last night, and ran a probe over it to get a idea of how far out it is, and probe the bolt/chamber locations to draw out a pressure plate setup from & noticed one valve seat sits a mm or so proud of the head surface itself, so I wonder if its been replaced or has come adrift in its seat as the other 7 are flush. While it wouldn't explain the water ingress nor affect the head sealing as it will fall inside the chamber, its worth investigating before/if I decide to machine it flat. I also noticed I'd ordered 5 new injector sleeves originally and found the one extra tucked away in storage, result, if I find a leak I don't have to faff about getting another.


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