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Fiat 50 c crawler info

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Deas Plant
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Re: Fiat 50 c crawler info

Post #51 by Deas Plant » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:44 pm

Hi, Ian.
Those heads studs broken off down the hole might be a bit off a worry. Brings up the question, "Do you know a really good welder?" If you or Nick, or someone you know are pretty handy with the 'frizzle-sticks', you can drop a spring washer down the hole and weld the inside of the spring washer to the top of the broken stud. Repeat the process as necessary to get the broken stud extended up clear of the block to where you can weld a nut on it.

Let the whole issue cool out before trying to extract it. Turn gently in both directions feeling for any movement without really applying a LOT of force. For a start, you need to try to break the stud free of the corrosion before trying to screw it out.

The other approach is to use a magnetic drill and a really good quality drill bit to try to drill the studs out. You need to align the drill perfectly with the hole and have a bit that is a neat fit to the inner diameter of the threads so that they are not damaged during the drilling. Once the drilling is complete, use the appropriate bottoming tap to clean the threads ready for the new stud.

If the threads do get damaged, it is not the end of the world. Heli-coiling usually solves the problem.

Now here we come to a memory stretch. I seem to remember hearing of a company in Adelaide who claim to make head gaskets for any engine so I did a Google search and came up with a few possibles.

http://www.coppergaskets.com.au/

http://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/AU/gaskets.html

http://www.swansonsgaskets.com.au/setup.htm

These are just three that came up in the search. You can also do your own search for 'head gasket manufacturers Australia'.

This outift also showed up in the search and I included them here 'cos they claim to handle piston rings for cars. Maybe, just maybe, they can also access rings for your 50. If not, a search for piston ring suppliers might help.

http://www.classiccargurus.com.au/Fabre_Australia

Happy hunting and UN-screwing.
You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.


Ian.Stewart-Koster
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Re: Fiat 50 c crawler info

Post #52 by Ian.Stewart-Koster » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:36 pm

Thank you once again, Deas.
The broken head bolts all have a bit of their steel poking up- none are in a hole as it were, but all are way down the bottom of the water jacket part of the ' engine block. Access is pitiful.
The cylinders are a kind-of cast sleeve which sits on the bottom. If we could easily remove them it would allow a lot more access, but I'm not sure if disturbing them is a good idea.
A magnetic drill would have difficulty finging somewhere to stick to, and you'd need a drill bit about 14" long.

I did make up an extended drill bit by welding an old good sharp 1/2"but to some 1/2" rod, so that Nick could try and reach in from underneath beside the crankshaft, to drill them out-since all the head bolts but four, go down and come out, exposed in the sump area.
I also welded an old punch to a 2 ft rod, so he could centre-punch them to start the drill bit off.

He's drilled one- but removal progress is zero so far.
Best wishes,
Ian


Ian.Stewart-Koster
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Re: Fiat 50 c crawler info

Post #53 by Ian.Stewart-Koster » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:38 pm

P.S. I believe there's a mob in Brisbane near Sandgate/Zillmere that do head gaskets also, via CNC.
Thanks for the contacts, though, I appreciate that.
Best wishes,
Ian


Deas Plant
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Re: Fiat 50 c crawler info

Post #54 by Deas Plant » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:56 am

Hi, Ian.
I have just read through the whole thread again and now have a couple of questions that may lead to a solution.

Firstly, you mention that the head bolts are in holes that come right through into the crankcase. Do the bolts themselves protrude right through into the crankcase?

Second question: Are you able to measure the 16mm threaded section, bottom of thread on one side to bottom of thread on the other side, to see if that diametter is 13mm or more.

If you can do this measurement and the diameter, thread bottom to thread bottom, does prove to be 13mm or more, AND if the bolts protrude into the crankcase, you may be able to stand the block upside down, weld nuts to the protruding bolt ends and get them out through the crankcase.

When having new bolts machined up, I think I would be inclined to retain the 16mm diameter pretty much right up to where the originals stepped back up to 14mm for the top threaded section or at least near the level of the bottom of the head, unless there is something that precludes doing this.

I suspect that this saga may be a good example of the old latin saying, 'Caveat emptor' - buyer beware. It's sometimes awful hard to be sure what some past mechanical genius might have done and hidden deep in the bowels of a machine.

Happy extracting.
You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.


international1020
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Re: Fiat 50 c crawler info

Post #55 by international1020 » Sun May 11, 2014 2:43 pm

I am a new person to this forum..I have recently obtained a Fiat 50 or 52 dozer and have managed to get the pilot motor running and work out the clutch and engage lever for that..My problem is how to get fuel to the injectors..I have diesel to the pump for sure and through the filter i think ?,, and managed to get it leaking around the four injector pipes on the pump.The priming plunger on the injector pump does not feel solid and the long pins under the injectors which are like brake bleeders are only huffing air..This is my first step outside of petrol/kero tractors and stationary engines... I would appreciate any info on operating instructions or hints etc..
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Re: Fiat 50 c crawler info

Post #56 by Mrsmackpaul » Mon May 12, 2014 10:34 am

welcome aboard Richard hope you have some fun with Fiat were is fuel tank on on of these crawlers ? cant realy see in your picture might be to low for the lift pump to suck it up ? Maybe the lift pump has a shot diaphram in it ?? might be sucking air from in the motor some were remember any air getting and the diesel wont go at all .When you pull the bleeding screw out of the injector pump does bubbles come out when you are priming if so you are still getting air in the system somewhere . hope this of some help

Paul

wonder what the end result with Ians was ???????????
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international1020
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Re: Fiat 50 c crawler info

Post #57 by international1020 » Mon May 12, 2014 12:20 pm

Hi Mate ,
The fuel tank is under the seat and ive blown by mouth with the vent pipe blocked through the filler cap to get fuel running freely (and siphoning well) out of a pipe union just prior to the pump..I,ve given the primer plunger on the pump a good workout and managed fuel to the filter..Then cracked the line to the injector pump intake and drained out all the diesel in that line so I started again.Finally got the injector lines to weep at the outlets of the pump..I would assume that these should pulse while cranking but they dont. The pump has a return loop and my next suspicion is that it has a valve and overload cycling system on the entry and exit of the pump?..Is this controlled by a valve on the outlet of the pump leading straight down via a short pipe with a banjo fitting into the inlet pipe from the tank ?..The pump was rebuilt and came up from Sydney four years ago..And i know that it ran after it was refitted...Being diesel I am reluctant to unbolt anything with a locknut or upset things I know nothing about....I've been running the pilot motor for four days after work and ironed out the problems with that but just cannot get the main engine to fire...An occasional knock and a puff of smoke is all I have managed ....I would like someone with prior knowledge of this injection system to give me a heads-up before I possibly upset something that I didnt need to touch....


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Re: Fiat 50 c crawler info

Post #58 by Mrsmackpaul » Mon May 12, 2014 1:42 pm

Richard unless you no what you are doing dont touch the injector pump . But your problem is you are not getting enough diesel.You do have an air leak or at least that is what it sounds like to me from your description .The line that returns to the tank is set up so that any excess fuel returns to the tank excess that the motor wont use and this also has to be air tight as when the motor is turned off the fuel runs back through the lift pump to the tank and syphons through the return line to keep the prime. But your problem sounds like you have an air leak or your lift pump not the hand priming pump is not working copied a picture from page 3 of this thread of the lift pump they will 2 small valves in the but I think the most likely problem will be a fuel leak before the pump good luck and keep us posted
ps these hand priming pumps never feel like there doing much even when they are doing fine
Paul
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international1020
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Re: Fiat 50 c crawler info

Post #59 by international1020 » Fri May 16, 2014 11:28 am

Hi,,
Took all your recommendations onboard and also asked around some mates who work in excavation.
Disconnected the fuel tank and put a 20 litre up high without success. The next arvo there was fuel topside of the primer plunger when i unscrewed it..Stripped out the priming plunger and found some serious wear and put it back on.
I lifted the drum even higher and pulled the side plate off the injector to lever the pump springs with a screwdriver (as a mate told me) while using the dodgy primer..Fuel to the injector lines !!!...Then i kicked the pilot over and the main engine stared smoking and firing on one or two cylinders...Oh happy day I thought,, until the pilot stopped suddenly...Tried the pilot again and noticed the maggie was not spinning...Moved everything by hand and reckon theres about 2 or 3 teeth missing from somewhere in the drive for the mag...So undaunted (but thoroughly dissapointed) I have resigned myself to the fact that the pilot has to come off and hopefully I can find parts...And a good mate thinks he can build up the offending gear for a recut..
Failing that my father tells me he used to get push started on a D4 by a D9 after the pilot motor died when he was 15(now 67), clearing logging tracks over mountain ranges. Im not a big fan of loading up the drivetrain on the old girl for a push start but i can smell victory !!...


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Re: Fiat 50 c crawler info

Post #60 by Mrsmackpaul » Fri May 16, 2014 12:16 pm

Richard if you look back through this thread Ian has his phone number and a spare machine might be able to help with some spares give him a call never now your luck I would take that lift pump off and drop it in to your local fuel injection man and get it fixed might only cost 100 bucks good luck

Paul
Your better to die trying than live on your knees begging


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