Thomas Green & Sons (Atkinson) roller

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Chris Vince
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Re: Thomas Green & Sons (Atkinson) roller

Post #11 by Chris Vince » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:37 pm

B100 LOADER wrote:They can be hard to start in cold weather,we used to put 10 W engine oil for those engines.May just need a decoke .Can you hear the injector "creak " when turning the handle ?.
Martyn


Thanks again Martyn,
I have tried to listen for the injector creak but as yet have not heard it, the noise from the starting system winding gear overcomes it, I am waiting till I can get one of my sons to turn it while I listen with a 'mechanics' stethoscope.
I have seen a decent spray from the injector when it is in open air, but obviously do know if this is so, when in the cylinder and under full compression pressure.
I had the injector apart today, to be honest it was pretty clean inside.
If I do hear the 'creak' I will start looking elsewhere, I suppose after a 24 year sleep the rings might have stuck in their grooves, I am going to run it with a little red in the oil and some Forte engine flush to see if this will free them up (if they are stuck at all).
I will have to get it started with some Easy Start, then disconnect and look at the breather pipe to see if it is a heavy breather, this should tell me whether the rings are stuck and if it is letting gases by.
The engine does feel like it has very good compression though, I have reset the valve clearances to 0.006" (should be 0.004" but I prefer them a little on the wide side).
This engine has done very little work as it was vandalised and unused from about 7 years old, I am pretty sure the injector pump has never been fiddled with, so timing etc should be OK, when it finally does run, it is fine, no misfiring or smoke, it is a constant rpm model (2,200rpm) when I disconnect the rpm control it will go right down to a very slow idle, and stay there, not missing a beat, pick up is immediate without hesitation up to 2,200 rpm.
It is just the very hard starting problem whether hot or cold.
It has fresh red diesel in the tank, brand new in-line filter, new air filter.
Is there anything I have missed?
I won't be giving up on it, I need the roller to be reliable before the self build starts.
I thank you for your thoughts.
Chris


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Chris Vince
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Re: Thomas Green & Sons (Atkinson) roller

Post #12 by Chris Vince » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:07 pm

Martyn,
I have sorted it out.
This Petter AB1 engine is the fixed speed version, however it is set to run pretty slow at 2,200rpm.
When I was trying to start it, it was trying really hard, with a diesel knock and a little exhaust smoke, but just not getting there, once the priming effect ran out it died completely.
I got to thinking about how the Lister PH1 engine moves the pump rack to inject more fuel for a cold start.
So I unscrewed the external governor adjuster 4 turns, then made a forked spacer about 1/4" thick to put between the idle adjuster and its stop.
The effect of this is that the engine speed is temporarily increased hence more fuel injected at start up, when it has fired up I simply pull the forked spacer out and it returns to the set 2,200rpm speed.
Using this method it started first time, and every time after.
Thanks for all your advice.
Chris


martyn williams
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Re: Thomas Green & Sons (Atkinson) roller

Post #13 by martyn williams » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:35 pm

Thats good news. :thumbup: If I remember right,on those petters there is a small lever tucked away for excess fuel.Think it was by the oil filter cover.Its a long time I worked on them, 1988 :dizzy: Where is the time gone :lol:
Martyn


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Re: Thomas Green & Sons (Atkinson) roller

Post #14 by Chris Vince » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:36 pm

Hello Martyn,
Forget my previous comments, I was still not happy with the starting of this engine, I have an old Thwaites dumper with a Lister PH1 that starts first time even after a 4 month layoff, I have also been watching (in envy) other Petter AB1's on UTube that also start easily.
I need this engine to be reliable as the roller it is on will be a worker.
So I have stripped the barrel and head off it, I now know I was obviously lied to by the seller, as this engine has had a 0.040" rebore, having said that the bore is in perfect condition, the honing marks are still visible as are the machining marks on the piston, so it couldn't have had this work too long ago.
I am now sure it's starting problem is compression related, it has clearly been leaking through the head gasket, my suspicions are that whoever did the work re-used the original head gasket, causing the problems.
I have a new de-coke set coming, and will take this opportunity to lap in the valves and do the job properly, hopefully this will solve it, I will let you know the outcome.


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